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War of the Ring (second edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Problems with painted minis (sticky minis) rss

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Luiz Borges
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I've tried 3 times to paint the minis for my War of the Ring game and everytime it stays sticky from the primer until the varnish. I've used different products on the 3 tries and I always wait a minimum of 3 days before each step, normally more than a 2 weeks.

This last time I used a primer in spray, acrylic paint and brushed acrylic varnish. Yet, the same result as always.

The plastic from the miniature of War of the Ring is different than the ones of Battle of Five Armies, I think the plastic is what is causing that. Anyone can confirm this?
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Danni Durante
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I tried priming mine with different primers and get the same stickiness. It dried on some factions and not on others. Bizarre. Except when I used the black primer from Citadel paints. I wash all my minis with Green Clean and a scrub so its not factory residue that's the issue. The sticky primer never dried for me but I got fed up of re-washing them so I just painted over the sticky primer with acrylic paints and they turned out just fine. Dry and all.
 
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Luiz Borges
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I did tried painting over the primer and went up to the varnish.

Here are them 3 weeks after varnishing.



 
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Team Ski
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I really feel for you. I had the same problems with Rallyman cars where vinyl was used as the plastic. They stuck together as well and I had no fix for it as you can literally wipe off the paint. This was with the cars being primed. It sucks, so I fully understand your dilemma. If I were you, I would try to brush on some dullcote to see if that will neutralize the wash. It worked for me in some instances.

-Ski
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Luiz Borges
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Teamski wrote:
I really feel for you. I had the same problems with Rallyman cars where vinyl was used as the plastic. They stuck together as well and I had no fix for it as you can literally wipe off the paint. This was with the cars being primed. It sucks, so I fully understand your dilemma. If I were you, I would try to brush on some dullcote to see if that will neutralize the wash. It worked for me in some instances.

-Ski

Yes, I can peel the paint easily just passing my finger. So that sucks.
I just want to confirm what is the problem so I can avoid it in the future. I painted about a third of the game and spend a few months doing it. I won't risk it again with the other two thirds (even though it is already primed AND sticky).
I will just clean them and leave them as they are naturally. Maybe add a small mark to differentiate each nation.
 
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Team Ski
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What paint did you use? Sometimes the varnish wash will react to the paint and soften it. Enamel especially is bad with lacquer coats....

-Ski
 
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Luiz Borges
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Teamski wrote:
What paint did you use? Sometimes the varnish wash will react to the paint and soften it. Enamel especially is bad with lacquer coats....

-Ski

All acrylics. It was sticky since the priming stage and all the way to the varnish.
 
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Team Ski
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I found that humidity and mixing of the primer can also have an effect. I spray my figures and sometimes if the primer isn't fully mixed or is bad, then you can have an issue of it not drying all of the way. I would try another brand of primer and give it a shot. If it is hot and muggy, that can issues as well. Try it once.

-Ski
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Tor Andersson
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You could try priming with gesso. It's different enough from the usual spray on primers that it might work.
 
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Charlie Croft
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I have found that some plastics will react with a spray primer. I would try using a brush on primer or use an airbrush.
 
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Derry Salewski
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There are already threads about this. (That might have more information for you.)

I am in the same boat.
 
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Luiz Borges
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Charlie 325 wrote:
I have found that some plastics will react with a spray primer. I would try using a brush on primer or use an airbrush.

Already used brush on primer in previous attempts. Same result.
 
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Luiz Borges
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scifiantihero wrote:
There are already threads about this. (That might have more information for you.)

I am in the same boat.

I've seem some other threads, but no definitive answer yet. Did the same thing happen to your WotR minis?
 
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Sherwood 925
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this is what i've done: in fall/winter, when i gotta turn the heater on, place the tacky minis near a heating vent and leave them there for weeks or months until they fully dry.

it could take longer than that.

if that's too long to wait, personally i'd strip it and start over.

in my own experience, the tack was caused by spraying primer too heavily and in poor conditions (low temps, high humidity). if you're not already doing this, 1) scrub the minis w/ warm water and dish soap before priming and 2) when priming, spray lightly (a light mist) and let each coat fully dry before doing anything else.
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Fabian Schuster
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I solved this problem using a layer of brush on gloss acrylic varnish as an undercoat and another after the figure is painted.
The level of detail does suffer from it though, so I'm not sure whether I should recommend this for the character miniatures.
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Luiz Borges
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I'm already stripping all the paint and primer. I'd I would try again I will probably take another route than regular priming.
Someone mentioned elsewhere about priming with gesso/gypsum, something like that, what is that?

I'm thinking on doing a quick priming (real quick, less than a minute per minute) preferably with some base color in it + a wash just to add details and shadows (again, less than a minute per mini) and finally a spray on varnish.

Anyone can suggest how to do the process above?
 
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Tor Andersson
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zhouluyi wrote:
I'm already stripping all the paint and primer. I'd I would try again I will probably take another route than regular priming.
Someone mentioned elsewhere about priming with gesso/gypsum, something like that, what is that?

I'm thinking on doing a quick priming (real quick, less than a minute per minute) preferably with some base color in it + a wash just to add details and shadows (again, less than a minute per mini) and finally a spray on varnish.

Anyone can suggest how to do the process above?


I do all my miniature painting priming with white gesso. Sometimes I mix the gesso with an acrylic color so I don't have to apply a base coat. I slather on a fairly thick coating of gesso, which shrinks like a shrink wrap when it dries. Leave it to dry for at least 24 hours.

For a very simple paint job, priming with colored gesso, a wash to bring out the details, followed by a bit of drybrushing does wonders and takes very little time.

There are several tutorials and videos for priming minis with gesso on youtube.
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Luiz Borges
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ccxvii wrote:
I do all my miniature painting priming with white gesso. Sometimes I mix the gesso with an acrylic color so I don't have to apply a base coat. I slather on a fairly thick coating of gesso, which shrinks like a shrink wrap when it dries. Leave it to dry for at least 24 hours.

For a very simple paint job, priming with colored gesso, a wash to bring out the details, followed by a bit of drybrushing does wonders and takes very little time.

There are several tutorials and videos for priming minis with gesso on youtube.

Hey Tor, I get some acrylic gesso and made some tests with it. So far it dries nicely (it feels like dried acrylic paint), but it scratchs off very easily. Is that supposed to happen? After varnish does it goes away?

BTW, which kind of varnish to recomend? Brush on or spray?
 
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Jeff K
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Sherwood925 wrote:

in my own experience, the tack was caused by spraying primer too heavily and in poor conditions (low temps, high humidity). if you're not already doing this, 1) scrub the minis w/ warm water and dish soap before priming and 2) when priming, spray lightly (a light mist) and let each coat fully dry before doing anything else.


This is your best advice on the thread. I notice that you are in Brazil, and you likely have a perpetually humid environment.

Paint cans usually have specifics about the temp and humidity levels that are recommended for their use. These are actually pretty critical, especially the humidity. My guess is that it is indeed the humidity level that is causing this problem. I know it is not an easy thing to control, but I think you are going to have to get a handle on that before you will succeed here.

Alternative to spray, use brush on everything, and do it inside where you can control the humidity better.
 
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Luiz Borges
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Xookliba wrote:
Sherwood925 wrote:

in my own experience, the tack was caused by spraying primer too heavily and in poor conditions (low temps, high humidity). if you're not already doing this, 1) scrub the minis w/ warm water and dish soap before priming and 2) when priming, spray lightly (a light mist) and let each coat fully dry before doing anything else.


This is your best advice on the thread. I notice that you are in Brazil, and you likely have a perpetually humid environment.

Paint cans usually have specifics about the temp and humidity levels that are recommended for their use. These are actually pretty critical, especially the humidity. My guess is that it is indeed the humidity level that is causing this problem. I know it is not an easy thing to control, but I think you are going to have to get a handle on that before you will succeed here.

Alternative to spray, use brush on everything, and do it inside where you can control the humidity better.

Jeff, as I said before, this was my third time painting the minis, on the previous attemps I used brushed on acrylic primer (different brands each time) with the exact same result.

Also, when I sprayed them I was concious of that problem and sprayed in the dryer winter months (also Brazil is very big, or climate changes widely from region to region) so humidity definitely is not the problem here.
 
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Jeff K
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Well, then the next usual culprit is brand. What brand of spray primer did you use?
 
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Luiz Borges
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Xookliba wrote:
Well, then the next usual culprit is brand. What brand of spray primer did you use?

Jeff, I had the exact same problem with the brush on primer. Same result with diferent primers, brand is not the issue.
 
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Tor Andersson
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zhouluyi wrote:
ccxvii wrote:
I do all my miniature painting priming with white gesso. Sometimes I mix the gesso with an acrylic color so I don't have to apply a base coat. I slather on a fairly thick coating of gesso, which shrinks like a shrink wrap when it dries. Leave it to dry for at least 24 hours.

For a very simple paint job, priming with colored gesso, a wash to bring out the details, followed by a bit of drybrushing does wonders and takes very little time.

There are several tutorials and videos for priming minis with gesso on youtube.

Hey Tor, I get some acrylic gesso and made some tests with it. So far it dries nicely (it feels like dried acrylic paint), but it scratchs off very easily. Is that supposed to happen? After varnish does it goes away?

BTW, which kind of varnish to recomend? Brush on or spray?


It does peel off if you scratch it hard; but most paints will do that anyway. A coat of varnish should seal it well enough for regular play. I've often not bothered to varnish some of my minis and they haven't suffered any damage yet!
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Jeff K
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zhouluyi wrote:
Xookliba wrote:
Well, then the next usual culprit is brand. What brand of spray primer did you use?

Jeff, I had the exact same problem with the brush on primer. Same result with diferent primers, brand is not the issue.


I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. You don't usually see this complaint when using GW products, for example.

I've had this problem once or twice using some inexpensive brands of paints. But I've literally painted hundreds of WotR minis from different editions and not had this problem except for when I tried to use Krylon once for black primer.

You may want to just give GW or Army Paint a shot. Yes, the downside is they are expensive. If you are simply sick of trying to paint, as you indicated upthread, you could always try the Army Painter dip. Although I don't usually recommend it, I've seen people use that without priming. You need to give them a really hard shake to avoid the same problem. I've also seen people using sharpie for the bases to at least distinguish armies by Nation color. Good luck, I hope it works out for you!
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Adam L
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Yes. This is my issue too. I had to re-do some of them, hoping for improvement.

Seen loads of threads on this issue - and nobody has a real clue why or why not it get sticky. (At least nobody has been able to put anything down in writing that convinces me that they really know why it happens.)

Best guess? The plastic reacts with the paints in a way that is pretty impossible to predict or stop. Here's what I did... notice no varnish or oil based products. all water based. still sticky

1. Wash well initial models.
2. Spray with black GW primer
3. Spray with Army painter colour primer
4. Wash with relevant water based ink (e.g. GW Red Wash on Red figures, etc...)
5. Highlight with a silver or gold on some parts of the model.

In the end, I had to rig up a storage system that basically gives every single model it's own individual space, with cardboard dividers. They still stick to the cardboard, but it's tolerable.

When playing on the board, I dare not put them on teh board itself. I cover the board in plexiglass when playing.
Edit... I paint a lot of minis and wotr minis are a different plastic from most of the others I've painted. They are the only ones that have caused a problem.
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