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Days of Ire: Budapest 1956» Forums » Reviews

Subject: Afterthoughts after 2 tabletopia games rss

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denis sauzedde
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Hello,

Over the week end, I played this game twice.
It will not be an extended review, but more thoughts, tips and questions.

Once you get used to the interface, the game is rolling really nicely.
The first game, I made some rules mistakes that I corrected on the 2nd one.
I lost twice, making it each time to the end of the 7th day, losing because I couldn't deal with enough events.

About rules I had wrong, it is mainly about the SPA phase that is quite...violent (maybe more than in the conflict game eventhough I just read the rules about this version of the game): in my 1st game I wrongly thought that the militia and sniper were just attacking where I had ma standee, but in fact they attack everywhere they can shoot something (barricade, active fighters left alone) and they also threaten where they shot.

So you have to be careful to not leave to many active fighters alone and make some move with your character in order to be able to split sniper forces (to give them 2 "same distance" path between you and them), because if 3 of them are together, they will threaten the population every time they shoot, even if it not on you...but only where they shot (meaning "if they have nothing to shoot at, they are unseen and not threatening) right ?
The Morale track was too often on the lower end of the scale during the 1st play (reaching even once the skull but I could level it up during my own turn to not loose in that way), and I managed to keep it stronger on the 2nd one.

I also got wrong about the free move: it has to be taken before your 1st action or it is lost (but it is the same in the conflict version, so it is more a "do not forget" thing).


My main interrogations were about the use of fighters:
- If they are not "active", they are all "inactive": I say that regarding one Zhukov card (I think it is "President Eisenhower refuses to help") that removes inactive fighters: I fI didn't activate the 1st fighter of a stack, both fighters (even the one face down) are removed right?
- About the resources the active fighters can provide: I think they can provide their ressources once per day, but I couldn't find that point adressed in the rulesets. Am I right about it?
- Another question: If they have 2 resources icons, can we collect them at different times? I think that "no" is the answer because of the last sentence in the example given on p7 of the Zhukov ruleset with Robert Fekete "provides one excess food resource". Is that resource lost or can be used later after a move on another event?
Same kind of question with one of the 2 resources icon being ammunition: can you collect 1 resource to resolve an event and the ammunition to fight militia in the same spot?
- I had a specific proble of understanding with Júlia Tollas but maybe her ability changed between the tabletopia version (no tank can move into her location) and the explanation given in the starting rulebook ("Applies for all Soviet tank rolls, both retaliation and text effect that allows Soviet tanks to fire."). So I had her with me all game and changed her ability in the table topia version to "tank can not fire in her location", but I finally discover that another face down fighter had this ability. But maybe it is just an ability swap between fighters as I saw that some events changed period (E#7 "Fire in the National Museum" is int 1st game period in the ruleset explanations, but in the 2nd one on Tabletopia), so it might some final adjustments after KS.

I had good time trying Days of Ire: Budapest 1956 and might give some more go before receiving the real box.
Well done gentlemen.

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David Turczi
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senik wrote:
So you have to be careful to not leave to many active fighters alone and make some move with your character in order to be able to split sniper forces (to give them 2 "same distance" path between you and them), because if 3 of them are together, they will threaten the population every time they shoot, even if it not on you...but only where they shot (meaning "if they have nothing to shoot at, they are unseen and not threatening) right ?
Right. If there are 9+ strength in one location with NOTHING to shoot at, nothing happens. If there is even a single fighter, rev tank, or barricade (or you...) they shoot, and they indeed threaten for -1 morale.

Quote:
The Morale track was too often on the lower end of the scale during the 1st play (reaching even once the skull but I could level it up during my own turn to not loose in that way), and I managed to keep it stronger on the 2nd one.
I'm looking at the final rulebook, and I believe now you immediately lose if the morale reaches the skull.
Quote:
I also got wrong about the free move: it has to be taken before your 1st action or it is lost (but it is the same in the conflict version, so it is more a "do not forget" thing).
No, it doesn't have to be taken before the first action. What gave you that impression? Just to summarize the first movement you take on a round is free, doesn't matter when you take it. "Teleporting" with a transportation card doesn't count as movement, and don't forget the small rule about no movement after last action.

Quote:
- If they are not "active", they are all "inactive": I say that regarding one Zhukov card (I think it is "President Eisenhower refuses to help") that removes inactive fighters: I fI didn't activate the 1st fighter of a stack, both fighters (even the one face down) are removed right?
Correct. They are under an inactive token (just face down) so they're definitely inactive. Eisenhower indeed removes every fighter you haven't yet activated.
Quote:
- About the resources the active fighters can provide: I think they can provide their ressources once per day, but I couldn't find that point adressed in the rulesets. Am I right about it?
No. They provide them on every action, for every player in the location. Can you point to a rule that implies otherwise?
Quote:
- Another question: If they have 2 resources icons, can we collect them at different times? I think that "no" is the answer because of the last sentence in the example given on p7 of the Zhukov ruleset with Robert Fekete "provides one excess food resource". Is that resource lost or can be used later after a move on another event?
See previous question. The excess is lost for the first action, but you have them both on the second.
Quote:
- I had a specific proble of understanding with Júlia Tollas but maybe her ability changed between the tabletopia version (no tank can move into her location) and the explanation given in the starting rulebook ("Applies for all Soviet tank rolls, both retaliation and text effect that allows Soviet tanks to fire."). So I had her with me all game and changed her ability in the table topia version to "tank can not fire in her location", but I finally discover that another face down fighter had this ability. But maybe it is just an ability swap between fighters as I saw that some events changed period (E#7 "Fire in the National Museum" is int 1st game period in the ruleset explanations, but in the 2nd one on Tabletopia), so it might some final adjustments after KS.
Julia Tollas' current ability is "Tanks only hit on 1-2". We indeed did a few tinkering after the Tabletopia was launched, I'll find out whose job is it to update it.
Quote:
I had good time trying Days of Ire: Budapest 1956 and might give some more go before receiving the real box.
Well done gentlemen.
Thanks for the kind words.

[/q]
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denis sauzedde
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Thanks David for your answers.
First of all, I'm using the specific rulesets you made avalaible in the update #18 (27 July), so things might have changed from the files that have been sent to production.

TDaver wrote:
I'm looking at the final rulebook, and I believe now you immediately lose if the morale reaches the skull.
So it is even harder then.
This isn't what is written in the ruleset I have p11
Quote:
At the end of any day or at the end of the game the
morale marker is on the last space of the morale
track.

TDaver wrote:
No, it doesn't have to be taken before the first action. What gave you that impression?
Again, the ruleset I use p5
Quote:
Each turn, the first movement step of each
Revolutionary is free. If a revolutionary
has more than one action during their
turn, only the first movement step (prior
to the first action
) is free.

TDaver wrote:
No. They provide them on every action, for every player in the location. Can you point to a rule that implies otherwise?
That is nice.
As I thought it was so nice and help us tremendously (compared to using Revolutionary cards which are one time use), I couldn't believe it would be that way and I was looking for a limitation that I couldn't find! cool
But I like it the way you did it.

TDaver wrote:
We indeed did a few tinkering after the Tabletopia was launched, I'll find out whose job is it to update it.
Good to know.
If an update is made, you should change the rulebook implemented as it is an old version. For example it is written that when you draw an event for a specific location, if that location is occupied, you discard the new event you just draw and you place a soviet tank instead. That's the main difference I foundbetween the old and new ruleset.
 
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David Turczi
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You're right, the version released in update #18 indeed says that only movement before the first action is free, but we caught the error before printing, my local copy has the correct rule.

I'll make sure the final rulebooks are released in a backer update / uploaded to BGG.
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denis sauzedde
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so it is the same with the immediate defeat when morale reachs the skull.

I will use that rules for my next tabletopia game
 
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Mihály Vincze
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Hi Denis!
One of your questions about the SPA attacks was unanswered.

senik wrote:
So you have to be careful to not leave to many active fighters alone and make some move with your character in order to be able to split sniper forces (to give them 2 "same distance" path between you and them), because if 3 of them are together, they will threaten the population every time they shoot, even if it not on you...but only where they shot (meaning "if they have nothing to shoot at, they are unseen and not threatening) right ?


Yes. They definitely don't threaten when they don't shoot.
Thematically, either way could be justified (threaten with targer or without target) but the balance required they do not threaten everywhere everytime. Especially because of the snipers concentrating too easily in solo.
Although note that in the Conflict rules the Soviet commander can use an "Attack!" card on a location with no target in order to decrease morale. So it is somewhat different in the two rulesets.

senik wrote:
About the resources the active fighters can provide: I think they can provide their ressources once per day, but I couldn't find that point adressed in the rulesets. Am I right about it?


Could you please tell me what made you assume this? I don't want to make you feel embarrassed, it's simply that I wrote most of the rules and I want to learn how it happened so next time I write it better. There might be misleading scentences, or a key information is hidden in a no-so-important place.
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denis sauzedde
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Thanks Mihaly (sorry, don't have the possibility to write an inverted accent on the "a" with my keyboard)

As I already told David, no point in the rules made me thing I could use resources from active fighters once per day only, it is more an laking of rules that made me hesitate.

I think I couldn't match a thematic way that a fighter could have access anytime, anywhere to all the ressources he could provide.
And when I read the example given on p7 of the Zhukov ruleset with Robert Fekete "provides one excess food resource" and that resource is lost.
I was just thinking "wow, that is hard" an that is why I asked if I could split the use of both resources If I didn't move the fighter.
I find the game difficult, and maybe it (meaning "use of all resources multiple times a day if you want") was just making it too much easier.

It is not as I lost my 3rd game by a headshot on 7th day during Zhukov turn (and had only to deal with 5 events on board!) cry

I like this game!
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Heike Pohl
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Hi,
There a lots of rule questions. Is the game very complex or the rules so bad?
 
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David Turczi
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Raider84 wrote:
Hi,
There a lots of rule questions. Is the game very complex or the rules so bad?


Hopefully neither. OP played on Tabletopia (slightly outdated version), mixing up with a newer rulebook. Once it's all in front of you preferably it'll all make sense
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