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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-hillary-clin...?
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Chris Binkowski
United States
Rochester
Michigan
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Continue obstructing justice and Congress will continue obstructing you.
 
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Daniel Kearns
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
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I'm not sure that's constitutional but whatever.

We're through the looking-glass, people.
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Donald
United States
New Alexandria
Pennsylvania
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Sarxis wrote:
Continue obstructing justice and Congress will continue obstructing you.


What has Obama been obstructing since Scalia died? How will a short handed SC further the cause of Justice?

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Xuzu Horror
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Sarxis wrote:
Continue obstructing justice and Congress will continue obstructing you.


You may like putting pretty little snipes in posts, but the obstruction happened well before the Clinton issue was on the radar.

And, as with nearly every time in history, there are people unhappy with decisions on both sides.

But, without courts, we'd be anarchy.

This is about one branch of government trying to exert more power over another in a way that was not intended.

Checks and balances no longer work when one part of that decides their will is more important than the others of millions of Americans that elected other officials.

Yes, there's a segment of the population that wants obstruction until the government fails (as long as it's not your side in power that is so you can blame the failure on someone else), but most of the population wants government to stop wasting time and get their jobs done.

People scream about government waste, then cheer for government waste when it's to their political benefit.

Sometimes some obstruction is necessary. You need to at times slow actions down so they can be discussed. But the level of obstruction during this presidency was not about that or we'd have had hearings. Most times it was just to try to obstruct Obama in any way possible.

Good government requires compromise or else it is just the twisting road to authoritarianism, where one group gets to impose it's thoughts, feelings, and/or beliefs on everyone else.

We have the freedoms and rights we do because we strive to care about everyone in our nation. Yes, some in every group fail to achieve that, but it's still a goal with striving for.
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Andrew Bartosh

Sunnyvale
California
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Maybe semi co-op games really are broken.
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Steve Fitt
Thailand
Chang Mai
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It only works if the Repuds retain control of the Senate or the Dems don't change the rules of the Senate to eliminate the filibuster for confirming judges, cabinet officials, etc.

This time I hope the Dems change the rules if they get control.

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Walt
United States
Orange County
California
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In memorium. Bob Hoover died 25 Oct 2016 at 94. In WWII he was shot down in a Spitfire and stole an FW-190 to escape. He spent decades at air shows flying Ole Yeller, shown
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Fivethirtyeight projects Democratic control of the Senate at about 75%. If the GOP wantonly obstructs the Senate, the Democrats will have to go nuclear--remove the filibuster capability. They'll look foolish if they don't.

I think long term, the GOP may be sorry they didn't approve the current Obama nominee.

The Constitution also has a way to get around House obstruction: a treaty. If a treaty is signed by the President and approved by the Senate (only), then it's the law of the land and overrides everything.
 
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Richard Keiser

Waunakee
Wisconsin
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growlley wrote:


McCain must be in trouble... courting to the red meat of his base.

It won't backfire in AZ, but elsewhere around the country, the talk of continued obstructionism may lead to less Rs and more Ds in the house and senate.

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Walt
United States
Orange County
California
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darthhugo wrote:
McCain must be in trouble... courting to the red meat of his base.

Hillary is trying to flip AZ, and she has a decent chance.
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Richard Keiser

Waunakee
Wisconsin
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Tall_Walt wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
McCain must be in trouble... courting to the red meat of his base.

Hillary is trying to flip AZ, and she has a decent chance.


Forgot about that vector... hard to believe that AZ may go blue... only one other time since 1952.

Thanks, OrangeMan!!!
 
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Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
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growlley wrote:


When are republicans going to look up at the statue of liberty and scream, "We finally really did it. You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
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Steve Fitt
Thailand
Chang Mai
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Tall_Walt wrote:
Fivethirtyeight projects Democratic control of the Senate at about 75%. If the GOP wantonly obstructs the Senate, the Democrats will have to go nuclear--remove the filibuster capability. They'll look foolish if they don't.

I think long term, the GOP may be sorry they didn't approve the current Obama nominee.

The Constitution also has a way to get around House obstruction: a treaty. If a treaty is signed by the President and approved by the Senate (only), then it's the law of the land and overrides everything.

But, treaties require a 2/3 vote to ratify, so it's not that useful.

OTOH, this is even more nuclear than atom bombing the filibuster rule.

We must not set a precedent that treaties can be used to Amend the Constitution.

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Walt
United States
Orange County
California
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Steve1501 wrote:
We must not set a precedent that treaties can be used to Amend the Constitution.

That happened long ago, and it was intentionally written into the Constitution. It wasn't an amendment:

Article. VI.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
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Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
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The problem is that people today are tossing out the spirit of the rules.

So they might just try to erase the 1st amendment with a treaty.

Only the good will of our leaders keeps things going. And the policy of "no" is a potentially fatal break down of civility.

The party of supposed constitutionalists plans to ignore the constitution even more. That's not a good thing.
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David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
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maxo-texas wrote:
The problem is that people today are tossing out the spirit of the rules.

So they might just try to erase the 1st amendment with a treaty.

Only the good will of our leaders keeps things going. And the policy of "no" is a potentially fatal break down of civility.

The party of supposed constitutionalists plans to ignore the constitution even more. That's not a good thing.

Surely a treaty is with a foreign state? The supreme court would surely rule that.
 
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Michael Pustilnik
United States
Brooklyn
New York
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Tall_Walt wrote:
Fivethirtyeight projects Democratic control of the Senate at about 75%. If the GOP wantonly obstructs the Senate, the Democrats will have to go nuclear--remove the filibuster capability. They'll look foolish if they don't.

I think long term, the GOP may be sorry they didn't approve the current Obama nominee.

The Constitution also has a way to get around House obstruction: a treaty. If a treaty is signed by the President and approved by the Senate (only), then it's the law of the land and overrides everything.


There is a reasonable compromise here. Allow the filibuster, but require the senators to actually do it. If a law or a judge is so flawed that the minority feels they need to block it or him, then make those senators actually talk for 24 hours every day. I bet that this will result in a lot fewer filibusters.

As for the treaty option, this requires a 2/3 senate vote. Good luck with that.
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Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
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DavidDearlove wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The problem is that people today are tossing out the spirit of the rules.

So they might just try to erase the 1st amendment with a treaty.

Only the good will of our leaders keeps things going. And the policy of "no" is a potentially fatal break down of civility.

The party of supposed constitutionalists plans to ignore the constitution even more. That's not a good thing.

Surely a treaty is with a foreign state? The supreme court would surely rule that.


With a foreign state or a sovereign Indian tribe. But yeah, a treaty has to be with somebody. I don't think this could be used to bypass the House.
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Trey Chambers
United States
Houston
Texas
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F the polarization of the nation. And while the Dems have played a part, the GOP has the most blood on their hands. They deserve the civil war Trump has left them with.
 
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J.D. Hall
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maxo-texas wrote:

When are republicans going to look up at the statue of liberty and scream, "We finally really did it. You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"

Nice. Planet of the Apes reference. Well played. And I think they already did that in 2012.
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Drew
United States
North Dakota
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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No matter who wins this election, I hope the entirety of Congress spends the next four years saying "no" to him/her/it.
 
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Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
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DavidDearlove wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The problem is that people today are tossing out the spirit of the rules.

So they might just try to erase the 1st amendment with a treaty.

Only the good will of our leaders keeps things going. And the policy of "no" is a potentially fatal break down of civility.

The party of supposed constitutionalists plans to ignore the constitution even more. That's not a good thing.

Surely a treaty is with a foreign state? The supreme court would surely rule that.


Scalia ruled some things which were unbelievable, said they were constitutionally based. Really, Thomas is much more of a strict constitutionalist than Scalia ever was.

Obviously it wouldn't be a "the 1st amendment is repealed" treaty - it would be a real edge case- like say... "in our new trade agreement, you can't say disparaging things about trade partners and if something is noted as a trade secret, you can't publish it without civil and criminal penalties." or perhaps "trade and economic zones" where foreign libel laws applied to their businesses.

It would be in some little nook and cranny of a huge and complicated treaty and loaded with obfuscation and legalese.


*Please note I'm not talking about the TPP. I dont' have a solid opinion on the TPP yet. Some people feel it's bad. Some people feel it's good.
 
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Michael Pustilnik
United States
Brooklyn
New York
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Drew1365 wrote:
No matter who wins this election, I hope the entirety of Congress spends the next four years saying "no" to him/her/it.


I hope for the opposite of this. We do not need four more years of an obstructionist congress and executive orders. We need pragmatic politicians who are willing to compromise and make deals for the good of the country.
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Drew
United States
North Dakota
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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MikePustilnik wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
No matter who wins this election, I hope the entirety of Congress spends the next four years saying "no" to him/her/it.


I hope for the opposite of this. We do not need four more years of an obstructionist congress and executive orders.


Well, you're gonna get the executive orders either way. I want Congress members with the balls enough to say no.

Quote:
We need pragmatic politicians who are willing to compromise and make deals for the good of the country.


Everyone thinks their decisions are pragmatic. Everyone thinks "compromise" means the other guy has to give something up.
 
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Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
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remorseless1 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

When are republicans going to look up at the statue of liberty and scream, "We finally really did it. You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"

Nice. Planet of the Apes reference. Well played. And I think they already did that in 2012.


he he.

Yup-- and Chuck was a bigtime republican for a bonus reference.
 
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