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Clank!» Forums » Rules

Subject: 3 Rules Questions rss

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Eric Bridge
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1) Do you HAVE to do everything in the text section of your cards? We know you do regarding "clank". But, for example, Sleight of Hand. Do I HAVE to discard a card and draw 2 more every time I play this card?

2) Magic Spring. Again, do I HAVE to trash a card if I find this? It seems (since its just a spring) that it should be optional.

3) Can a player go back and forth in the Monkey Idols room, acquiring multiple Monkey Idols?

We got a couple other rules wrong, but I found those afterward in the rulebook. WE HAD A GREAT TIME WITH OUR FIRST GAME! Both my wife and my 14 year old son (who stomped us by the way) are looking forward to playing it again. Something about drawing 6 cubes from the bag when you only have 3 health left is really exciting

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Erskine Thompson
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1. It is my understanding that the only things that are optional are regarding resources (Boots, Skill, and Swords). You acquire resources, but do not have to use them, i.e. you may have a Boot left over but choose not to move.

Any of the text regarding actions to take, such as draws, discards, or Clank, must be taken.

2. I don't remember the exact card text, so it would depend on if it says "may trash" or simply "trash."

3. You can certainly acquire a second Monkey Idol, but you can't just go back and forth, because the arrows require you to leave in a certain direction and you can't go back in that direction. You'd have to circle around if you want another one.
 
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Eric Bridge
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Thanks. Sorry I wasn't more clear about Magic Spring. Magic Spring is a Minor Secret you can uncover. The text at the back of the rulebook says:

"Magic Spring
At the end of this turn, trash a card from your
discard pile or play area. Return the card and this
token to the box."

It doesn't sound optional. I had told all the players that these secrets were always good things, never bad. It seems that a secret that forces you to trash a card, especially if you have no discard pile at the time, could be considered a bad thing, if it forces you to trash something that you'd actually rather keep. And, thematically, it doesn't make sense that a spring would be so "forceful". Regardless, I think we are house-ruling it as optional for now.
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Erskine Thompson
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Just read the rules text, and it does not appear to be optional (like some of the other ones). Thematically, the Spring would be part of the landscape, and thus would be impossible to take with you, so you couldn't use it on a later turn (like one of the potions). Depending on when you get the secret, it's unlikely there would be NOTHING in your hand you'd want to trash, but I suppose it's possible. In the majority of cases, trashing a card is a good thing.
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Antonio Tang
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This rule is somewhat strange. I understand why it's in place (otherwise, who would play Clank! cards?), but forcing people to discard cards from a perfectly good hand and to trash a perfectly good card (imagine you had all gems) seems overly harsh. Maybe the designer can give his thoughts here?
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Michael Denman
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Picking up secrets is optional. If you're concerned that you might pick one up that could make you trash a card you'd rather keep... then don't pick it up.
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Eric Bridge
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Trump wrote:
Picking up secrets is optional. If you're concerned that you might pick one up that could make you trash a card you'd rather keep... then don't pick it up.

Well, for me, "bad secrets" goes against the spirit of the game. It's not like there's hidden traps down there for us, etc. There should be no penalty on ONLY ONE SECRET for exploring, in my opinion. Like I said, we're leaving it optional in our games.
 
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David Gicante
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When we came across Magic Spring we decided you could use it on a later turn just like the other minor secrets. I thought of it as you basically bottle some of the spring water and took it with you. It has worked out fine in the 4 games the spring has shown up in.
 
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Michael Denman
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ebridge wrote:
Trump wrote:
Picking up secrets is optional. If you're concerned that you might pick one up that could make you trash a card you'd rather keep... then don't pick it up.

Well, for me, "bad secrets" goes against the spirit of the game. It's not like there's hidden traps down there for us, etc. There should be no penalty on ONLY ONE SECRET for exploring, in my opinion. Like I said, we're leaving it optional in our games.


I just don't see it as a bad aecret. I see it aa a great one. The chances of that secret actually causing me harm is minute. I accept the variability of cubes drawn from a bag. This is even easier to accept.

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Paul Dennen
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4ntonio wrote:
This rule is somewhat strange. I understand why it's in place (otherwise, who would play Clank! cards?), but forcing people to discard cards from a perfectly good hand and to trash a perfectly good card (imagine you had all gems) seems overly harsh. Maybe the designer can give his thoughts here?


For Sleight of Hand, if you play out your other cards first, so that you don't have any cards left in hand, you can then play the Sleight of Hand for no effect -- no discard but also no draws.

But, I would recommend discarding a gray/starter card whenever you can, especially Stumbles!
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Eric Bridge
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The cubes being drawn from a bag is a dragon searching/attacking. This Spring is not an attack - I don't think you're falling into it either. You find this magic spring that is intended to make your load lighter and make you more skillful if you choose to take a drink. Yes, usually that's awesome. But if all you're carrying on that turn is 4 Secret Tomes, it doesn't make sense for it to "steal" one of those from you (bye bye 7 points). In a game encouraging players to explore ever deeper, the dragon should be the only possible "surprise attack", again just in my opinion. And in this sense the game is very different and more forgiving than the totally brutal nature of Dungeonquest. But then again, that's why there are house rules.

Would really like to hear from the designer on this though...
 
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Jared Voshall
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Let's face it, if you've got a hand full of Secret Tomes, you're already getting pretty close to the end of the game - which is also when you'll be most likely to hit a no trash card hand.

But, how likely is it to actually hurt you? Well, there's really not much trashing in this game, so you'll generally be topping out at a 30 card deck if you're really buying up as much stuff as you can every turn. So, we're looking at a 10/30*10/29*10/28*10/27*10/26 - a .5% chance of not having a gray card in your hand. You're also looking at a pretty slim chance of getting a hand with no discard pile, with it only cycling once every 6 turns. Also, not all cards are created equal, and it's very unlikely that you're going to really have no cards that you want to remove from your supply, particularly if you bought a lot of the early game assist cards. With only a handful of tokens each game, I would expect this to really cause a problem once every 5 games or so (so, again, not exceedingly rare, but not exactly common either).
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Paul Dennen
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ebridge wrote:
The cubes being drawn from a bag is a dragon searching/attacking. This Spring is not an attack - I don't think you're falling into it either. You find this magic spring that is intended to make your load lighter and make you more skillful if you choose to take a drink. Yes, usually that's awesome. But if all you're carrying on that turn is 4 Secret Tomes, it doesn't make sense for it to "steal" one of those from you (bye bye 7 points). In a game encouraging players to explore ever deeper, the dragon should be the only possible "surprise attack", again just in my opinion. And in this sense the game is very different and more forgiving than the totally brutal nature of Dungeonquest. But then again, that's why there are house rules.

Would really like to hear from the designer on this though...


Hi Eric, the intention is that the effect is mandatory. Note that this allows you to trash a card from your discard pile or play area at the end of the turn when you find it, so the odds that you have nothing acceptable to trash are incredibly small. Typically in our play groups, this secret is considered a great secret to find, and I've never seen anyone forced to trash a card worth points, and I could probably play a million games and never see someone forced to trash a Secret Tome. You could house rule it to be optional, if you want.
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Eric Bridge
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Hi Paul,

Thanks for the game, and for your quick responses, but we will not be playing it that way in our sessions. First for the reasons I already gave (How does a spring "force" a player to do anything?) But we also play with younger children, who often only see actions like this as taking something away from them. Even my 14 year old son, after we explained to him that it was strategically better to thin his deck, he didn't want to give up a card. (He would have had there been a "Stumble" available though, which there was not. He also had no discard pile at the time.) It made sense to my wife and I to have it be entirely optional, even though we were apparently breaking the rules.

We still love the game though. Thanks again.
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Paul Dennen
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I understand your reasons for house ruling it. I hope the game continues to provide fun for you and your family, and maybe you can sneak in a win against your 14 year old next time!
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Michael Denman
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I have no thematic problem with the spring trashing a card. You find a refreshing spring. You drink. You feel a little sleepy.... hey, did you hear that goblin?! He stole my ________ !!!
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Erskine Thompson
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Hey, Paul - I just wanted to applaud you for jumping in here so frequently to address questions like these. It shows the care you put into designing the game, and how much you really want players to enjoy it. It certainly is a masterwork, and I wish you much continued success.

And expansions. Lots of expansions. :-)
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Eric Bridge
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Amen on expansions! Double the number of cards please!
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James Cameron
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ebridge wrote:
Thanks for the game, and for your quick responses, but we will not be playing it that way in our sessions. First for the reasons I already gave (How does a spring "force" a player to do anything?)

The pool isn't forcing you to do anything, but once you drink from it (by taking the token) you must suffer the effects, whatever they may be.

The magic pool with uncertain effects is a standard element of fantasy roleplaying, making a very early (1979) and prominent appearance in the D&D adventure B1 In Search of the Unknown and its infamous 'room of magic pools':




Since bottling the liquid from a magic pool removes its magic properties (otherwise, potions of healing would be as common as water), I'm afraid that your houserule egregiously breaks all the known rules of magic and, indeed, undermines the very fabric of your CLANK! game universe...

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Eric Bridge
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Nice. Except you're forgetting that in Clank rules you don't decide whether to drink from it or not, if affects you just because you found it. There is no option to just ignore it, which is VERY different than standard fantasy.
 
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