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SeaFall» Forums » Rules

Subject: Does The Port Have No Effect On Damaged Upgrades? rss

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Clinton Rice
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The port says to remove damage cards on ships ending a sail action there. Based on RAW, that would mean any damaged upgrades remain damaged. But is this what was intended?
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Matt S
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Reading the specifics of the tile why would it refresh an exhausted upgrade tile? Not trying to be contrary, just wondering.

I would think it doesn't fix an upgrade. You would still need the repair action.

However it has been clarified already that if a damage card requires specific conditions, like paying gold. You can still remove the card because of the port if you fulfill the additional text, our example to pay the gold.
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J Kaemmer
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It specifically says "damage CARDS" so I'd say it definitely does not include upgrades.
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Adam Ruzzo
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iswearihaveajob wrote:
It specifically says "damage CARDS" so I'd say it definitely does not include upgrades.


The design concept behind the port seems to be that it provides you with a repair action while not having to spend an action on the builder's guild. If that is the case, it could easily have been an oversight in writing the rules (as in, they should have also written "remove all damage cards and refresh upgrades").

I don't see it significantly affecting the game either way, and treating it as gaining the effects of a repair action makes for fewer exceptions in the rules IMHO. So unless there's a specific reason not to do so, our group will be playing that it does refresh upgrades.
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David desJardins
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Bridger wrote:
I don't see it significantly affecting the game either way, and treating it as gaining the effects of a repair action makes for fewer exceptions in the rules IMHO.


There's no "exception" involved either way. The Port has an effect, there's no reason it should or shouldn't be the same as the Repair action effect.
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Gustav Weberup
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Bridger wrote:
I don't see it significantly affecting the game either way, and treating it as gaining the effects of a repair action makes for fewer exceptions in the rules IMHO.


There's no "exception" involved either way. The Port has an effect, there's no reason it should or shouldn't be the same as the Repair action effect.

While I agree this is what the tile says and how it should be played, the example (regarding reputation) on page 11 still make the intention a little bit ambiguous.

For reference
Seafall rulebook p11 wrote:
Example: Yellow has a port in her home harbor. Red offers to give her a
reputation token to have his ships repair all damage in yellow’s home harbor
that turn. Yellow accepts the token and red repairs his ships without having to
spend a repair order (due to the Port)
. Yellow could have refused the token but
can’t ‘sweeten the deal’ by asking for some gold in addition.
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David desJardins
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I think it may well be that it's a mistake and the designer intended for the Port to repair all damage, of whatever type.

That's different from saying it's inconsistent or wrong, though. Only the designer really knows about this one.
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TJ
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I'm pretty sure if it's specific to damage cards. First of all, if it meant all damage, they probably wouldn't have specified "cards". There's also something later in the game that seems a bit over-powered if upgrades were allowed to be refreshed. If was either for box 3, 4, or 5:

I tell you the type of thing I'm talking about and the first letter it starts with, minimal spoilage:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It's a ship upgrade that starts with the letter "F" that's not "Fearless"


Full spoiler:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Fanatical upgrade allows you to exhaust it to remove all damage and curse cards. If Port allowed you to to refresh Fanatical, then effectively Ports now allow you to remove damage cards, curse cards, and refresh upgrades, which seems over-powered.
 
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David desJardins
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Spoiler for Rule 7:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Does the Port let you remove Curses? Curses are "damage cards" (but not "standard damage cards"), and the Port lets you remove "damage cards". Rule 7 says that Curses can be removed by a "special power", and the Port has such a power. Perhaps the Port isn't supposed to work on Curses, but if so this is another example of sloppy wording.
 
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TJ
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Spoiler for Rule 7:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Does the Port let you remove Curses? Curses are "damage cards" (but not "standard damage cards"), and the Port lets you remove "damage cards". Rule 7 says that Curses can be removed by a "special power", and the Port has such a power. Perhaps the Port isn't supposed to work on Curses, but if so this is another example of sloppy wording.


Box 3 spoilers:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
There's effectively three types of damage: A) exhausted upgrades, B) "standard damage cards" (Rule 7), and C) curse cards. The Port structure, Cold Iron Altar structure, and Tinker advisor refer to "damage cards", but I interpret that as "standard damage cards". Thematically ports and tinkers shouldn't be able to remove curses, whereas there are thematic equivalent advisors and structures that specify they remove curses. But more importantly, the Cold Iron Altar makes a differentiation between "damage cards" and curse cards.
 
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David desJardins
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I see plenty of clues and indications that's what might have been intended. But it's not what the rules SAY.
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Adam Ruzzo
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Bridger wrote:
I don't see it significantly affecting the game either way, and treating it as gaining the effects of a repair action makes for fewer exceptions in the rules IMHO.


There's no "exception" involved either way. The Port has an effect, there's no reason it should or shouldn't be the same as the Repair action effect.
if you can tell players "it works just like a free repair action" it is much simpler than saying "it works like a repair action but...."
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j n
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It's even simpler to say "It does what the tile says it does."
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Adam Ruzzo
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lactamaeon wrote:
It's even simpler to say "It does what the tile says it does."


The whole point of this thread is that the tile's text is not clear enough
 
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David desJardins
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Bridger wrote:
lactamaeon wrote:
It's even simpler to say "It does what the tile says it does."


The whole point of this thread is that the tile's text is not clear enough


I think everyone agrees the tile is clear. The question is whether it means what it says.
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Clinton Rice
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Bridger wrote:
lactamaeon wrote:
It's even simpler to say "It does what the tile says it does."


The whole point of this thread is that the tile's text is not clear enough


I think everyone agrees the tile is clear. The question is whether it means what it says.


Definitely. Because I get the impression not everyone is playing it the same way. And that is bad.
 
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j n
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KoalaXav wrote:
Definitely. Because I get the impression not everyone is playing it the same way. And that is bad.


Is it really?
 
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Clinton Rice
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Yes. In an epic $80 board game designed to tell one grand story once, I hope for something better than multiple rules that can be and often are misinterpreted. This is a game. Not a box of toys. That means that structure is one of the main elements we are paying for.
 
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j n
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KoalaXav wrote:
Yes. In an epic $80 board game designed to tell one grand story once, I hope for something better than multiple rules that can be and often are misinterpreted. This is a game. Not a box of toys. That means that structure is one of the main elements we are paying for.


I mean, in this particular case, the tile is clear (at least in English). People just want it to do something different (perhaps because the printed text doesn't feel sufficiently in-theme to their "epic story"). If they play that way, it's not going to break the "epic story".

(And if they did somehow break their own "epic story" it's not going to ruin yours.)
 
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Marc LeBlanc
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mcs1213 wrote:
However it has been clarified already that if a damage card requires specific conditions, like paying gold. You can still remove the card because of the port if you fulfill the additional text, our example to pay the gold.


Could you please link to the original source? I can't find this "clarification" anywhere.
 
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Matt S
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mahk wrote:
mcs1213 wrote:
However it has been clarified already that if a damage card requires specific conditions, like paying gold. You can still remove the card because of the port if you fulfill the additional text, our example to pay the gold.


Could you please link to the original source? I can't find this "clarification" anywhere.


It is here on BGG somewhere, I don't remember which thread it was in, look for answers given by JR.
 
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Becq Starforged
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mahk wrote:
mcs1213 wrote:
However it has been clarified already that if a damage card requires specific conditions, like paying gold. You can still remove the card because of the port if you fulfill the additional text, our example to pay the gold.


Could you please link to the original source? I can't find this "clarification" anywhere.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23764683#23764683

And in general, the following thread compiles many of the dev team's comments regarding the game (though it needs a bit of recent updating):

The Captain's Log (Unofficial SeaFall FAQ and compilation of rules clarifications and game play information from SeaFall's developers)

(Or Google "SeaFall FAQ"; it's currently entry #3!)
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