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If, as a result of a Damage card, your Mech moves adjacent to another minion, do you take damage again?

And let's say you're adjacent to 2 minions. If the card from the first minion's damage makes you move, are you no longer subject to the damage of that second minion?
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Abel Kim
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I would say no because the your mech should have drawn all the damaged gained from the damage step.
 
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Dbriner31 wrote:
I would say no because the your mech should have drawn all the damaged gained from the damage step.


Yeah, I thought I remember reading somewhere that you draw all your damage cards and then resolve them... but now that I'm reading instructions again, I only see it telling me to resolve each damage one at a time, which suggests it's possible you're supposed to draw for the new situation...
 
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Andrej Medved
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Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time
and in player order. It’s possible for one player’s damage to
remove the source of damage that might affect the next
player!

so it is also possible to get into additional troubles with an unlucky draw.
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Dan Zielinski
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kompanjon83 wrote:
Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time
and in player order. It’s possible for one player’s damage to
remove the source of damage that might affect the next
player!

so it is also possible to get into additional troubles with an unlucky draw.


+1

This is correct as I understand it.
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Chris Cantrell
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The first player should check to see if they are getting damaged.

Then they decide if they're going to mitigate that damage with a fuel tank or loaded skewer.

If not, they draw all the damage cards adjacent minions would deal and process that damage in the order that they are drawn.

Then play moves on to the next player and they repeat that process.


So you draw all your damage cards at once, but it's possible that either a fuel tank or an errant damage card will destroy minions that are surrounding an ally. If that happens, they won't draw those damage cards.

You never need to draw damage cards again if after you take damage, you are moved nearby new minions.

The only outlier here is lava damage or Spiked Walls - you always immediately draw and execute a new damage card whenever you are hit by either.
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rent13579 wrote:
kompanjon83 wrote:
Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time
and in player order. It’s possible for one player’s damage to
remove the source of damage that might affect the next
player!

so it is also possible to get into additional troubles with an unlucky draw.


+1

This is correct as I understand it.


Just to be clear: According to Mr. Cantrell's awesomely articulated post above, this is not correct.

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Jorgen Peddersen
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Edit: Hmm, it seems my reading of the rules does not match Chris'... In fact, I can't even make Chris' fit the rules, so I'll leave mine here for the purposes of healthy debate...

You don't draw them all at once, but you do determine damage taken before drawing any of the cards. The instructions are a little back and forth, but putting it all together, this is the process to follow:

1: Start with the first player as the player taking damage
2: The player taking damage determines the amount of damage they will take based on minions adjacent to them. Call this X.
3: Reduce X via Fuel Tank, Skewer, etc. if you can and wish to.
4: Repeat the following effect X times: draw and then resolve a Damage card.
5: The next player in turn sequence performs steps 2-5 until everybody has resolved them once.

The difference between drawing X cards at once then resolving them, or drawing and resolving X cards one at a time is subtle, but important, especially when you are just about ready to reshuffle the damage deck, I assume.
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Matt Evans
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I believe the official ruling on taking damage is as follows...

Damage is resolved by each player, in turn order, following these steps:

1. Count the number of adjacent minions.
2. If you have a Fuel Tank Command, decide whether or not to trigger it. If you do, you take no damage. Otherwise, continue.
3. Reduce damage by 1 for each minion on a Skewer Command card and discard those minions.
4. Draw a number of damage cards equal to the remaining damage.
5. Execute each damage card in the order they were drawn.

Hope that helps!




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Matt Evans
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mattamd wrote:
I believe the official ruling on taking damage is as follows...

Damage is resolved by each player, in turn order, following these steps:

1. Count the number of adjacent minions.
2. If you have a Fuel Tank Command, decide whether or not to trigger it. If you do, you take no damage. Otherwise, continue.
3. Reduce damage by 1 for each minion on a Skewer Command card and discard those minions.
4. Draw a number of damage cards equal to the remaining damage.
5. Execute each damage card in the order they were drawn.

Hope that helps!



Haha, dang...I'm too slow! while I was typing that up on my phone, Chris beat me to it
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Ok, here is my argument why the official method that was proposed does not follow the rules. The main rulebook states:

MvM Rules wrote:
Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time...


The described method is drawing them all and then fully processing each of them one at a time, which is a different instruction.

The difference between drawing prior to or between resolutions is very subtle, but the method we've been told to use seems to contradict the quoted rule.

So is this something that requires errata?
 
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Clipper wrote:
Ok, here is my argument why the official method that was proposed does not follow the rules. The main rulebook states:

MvM Rules wrote:
Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time...


The described method is drawing them all and then fully processing each of them one at a time, which is a different instruction.

The difference between drawing prior to or between resolutions is very subtle, but the method we've been told to use seems to contradict the quoted rule.

So is this something that requires errata?


Couldn't hurt to add it to the FAQ. But the effect of the difference between the 2 methods is not subtle! If you had to take damage for each changing situation of a mech, that can easily lead to taking 4 or 5 damage cards even if you were originally next to only 1 minion (as my last game can attest!)
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Wretched Git wrote:
Couldn't hurt to add it to the FAQ. But the effect of the difference between the 2 methods is not subtle! If you had to take damage for each changing situation of a mech, that can easily lead to taking 4 or 5 damage cards even if you were originally next to only 1 minion (as my last game can attest!)

No, you misunderstand me. It's very clear the number of cards drawn doesn't change based on a changing situation. The number of cards drawn both in Chris' method and the one I proposed are equal. The only difference is whether you do the following:

Chris' method when you start with 3 adjacent minions:
Draw, Draw, Draw, Resolve, Resolve, Resolve.

My method when you start with 3 adjacent minions:
Draw, Resolve, Draw, Resolve, Draw, Resolve.

Only the latter method seems to follow the rule in the rulebook, but perhaps the point is moot as the differences are so exceedingly minor.
 
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Clipper wrote:

Chris' method when you start with 3 adjacent minions:
Draw, Draw, Draw, Resolve, Resolve, Resolve.

My method when you start with 3 adjacent minions:
Draw, Resolve, Draw, Resolve, Draw, Resolve.

Only the latter method seems to follow the rule in the rulebook, but perhaps the point is moot as the differences are so exceedingly minor.


Hm, I don't see any difference at all, even at the end of the damage deck. With your method, the resolution of either of the first two draws could never cancel your obligation to draw that third card, right...?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Wretched Git wrote:
Hm, I don't see any difference at all, even at the end of the damage deck. With your method, the resolution of either of the first two draws could never cancel your obligation to draw that third card, right...?

Here's an example where it would matter:

There are two cards left in the damage deck and a mech must take 2 damage from minions. The topmost card on the deck is a Glitch card to move backwards one space. The mech that is taking damage is standing in front of another mech that will be pushed into lave or spikes when the first moves backwards.

Now, by Chris' method, the first mech would get both cards from the deck and the other mech would then get one from the reshuffled discards after the push. My method would give the other mech the second remaining card from the deck and the first mech would then receive its second card from the shuffled discards.

The difference is which mech got the card in the deck and which got one from the reshuffled discards. As stated, it's minor, but it is a difference. It could happen whenever damage causes damage on different mechs.
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Clipper wrote:
Wretched Git wrote:
Hm, I don't see any difference at all, even at the end of the damage deck. With your method, the resolution of either of the first two draws could never cancel your obligation to draw that third card, right...?

Here's an example where it would matter:

There are two cards left in the damage deck and a mech must take 2 damage from minions. The topmost card on the deck is a Glitch card to move backwards one space. The mech that is taking damage is standing in front of another mech that will be pushed into lave or spikes when the first moves backwards.

Now, by Chris' method, the first mech would get both cards from the deck and the other mech would then get one from the reshuffled discards after the push. My method would give the other mech the second remaining card from the deck and the first mech would then receive its second card from the shuffled discards.

The difference is which mech got the card in the deck and which got one from the reshuffled discards. As stated, it's minor, but it is a difference. It could happen whenever damage causes damage on different mechs.


Ah, you're right!
 
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Tutorial:

Damage Incoming!
* So, a Mech takes one damage per adjacent Minion.
* Starting with the First Player, draw a Damage Card for each damage taken.
* Follow the instructions on each card before moving on to the next Damage Card.
* Only move to the next player after all Damage Cards have been processed.
(A playes' Damage Card can affect whether the next player takes damage or not!)

> If, as a result of a Damage card, your Mech moves adjacent to another minion, do you take damage again?

No. You have already taken damage earlier in the Minions Attack step.

> And let's say you're adjacent to 2 minions. If the card from the first minion's damage makes you move, are you no longer subject to the damage of that second minion?

No. When you were adjacent to two minions, you took two damage. Then you drew two Damage Cards. Now, you have followed the instructions on the first Damage Card and moved. Next, you need to follow the instructions on the second Damage Card.

I guess, thematically, you can think of all the minions hitting your mech at the same time, then letting down their guard as your mech steps on top of them.

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Jorgen Peddersen
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Sam and Max wrote:
Tutorial:

Damage Incoming!
* So, a Mech takes one damage per adjacent Minion.
* Starting with the First Player, draw a Damage Card for each damage taken.
* Follow the instructions on each card before moving on to the next Damage Card.
* Only move to the next player after all Damage Cards have been processed.
(A playes' Damage Card can affect whether the next player takes damage or not!)

That supports both methods. Does 'moving on to the next Damage card' include drawing it?

The manual reference only supports resolving the first one before you draw the next one.
 
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Sam and Max wrote:

> If, as a result of a Damage card, your Mech moves adjacent to another
> minion, do you take damage again?

No. You have already taken damage earlier in the Minions Attack step.


Right, that's been made clear. We've moved on to more subtle quibbles!

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Clipper wrote:
Does 'moving on to the next Damage card' include drawing it?


I don't think so. By this time, you already drew the Damage Cards. Now you "follow the instructions on each card before moving on to the next Damage Card". Of course, in the next revision, they could word it better to "follow the instructions on each card before following the instructions on the next Damage Card". (Also, these rules should be changed from "Follow the instructions on each card..." to "Starting with the First Player, follow the instructions on each card...".)

I think the Damage Incoming! could be a little clearer. As it reads, "So, a Mech takes one damage per adjacent Minion", suggests all mechs are taking damage at the same time, yet says "a Mech", which is singular. The rest of the Minion Attack rules process the damage per player. So, personally, I would write the rules to say that the "Damage Incoming" is resolved one player at a time, starting from the First Player -- although, since I haven't played the entire game, my feedback may be premature!

> Right, that's been made clear. We've moved on to more subtle quibbles!

I'm designing a game myself, and writing a set of rules reminds me of scraping mold lines off of soft boardgame plastic. Just something you got to do.
 
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Luke Turner
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In case it was somehow missed given the arguments that followed, Chris Cantrell is one of the designers of the game. I think it's safe to assume his interpretation of the rules is the correct one.

Just felt like that was worth mentioning, please carry on.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I'm certainly aware of that, and I strongly appreciate the work Chris has put into the forum. I'm just pointing out that the ruling contradicts the following rule in the book:

"Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time
and in player order."

If the official ruling is going to remain as drawing all the cards then resolve them one at a time, then the above sentence from the rulebook requires errata.
 
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Matthias M
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Clipper wrote:
The only difference is whether you do the following:

Chris' method when you start with 3 adjacent minions:
Draw, Draw, Draw, Resolve, Resolve, Resolve.

My method when you start with 3 adjacent minions:
Draw, Resolve, Draw, Resolve, Draw, Resolve.

Only the latter method seems to follow the rule in the rulebook

Really? If

Sam and Max wrote:
Tutorial:

Damage Incoming!
* So, a Mech takes one damage per adjacent Minion.
* Starting with the First Player, draw a Damage Card for each damage taken.
* Follow the instructions on each card before moving on to the next Damage Card.
* Only move to the next player after all Damage Cards have been processed.
(A playes' Damage Card can affect whether the next player takes damage or not!)


is quote from the tutorial (= rules), then I read this as "Draw, Draw, Draw, Resolve, Resolve, Resolve". Or, more exactly, as "Draw card1, Draw card2, Draw card3, Resolve card1, Resolve card2, Resolve card3" because you cannot choose the order in which you resolve the three drawn cards (IMPORTANT!) and "Draw, Draw, Draw, Resolve, Resolve, Resolve" could easily be understood as resolution of 3 cards in any order as chosen by the player, expecially if "draw" is understood as "take into your hand". This would clearly be wrong.

Your suggestion with alternating draws and resolves has the advantage of not allowing this misunderstanding, so there definitely is a point in it, but I think that the rules nevertheless suggest drawing X cards before resolving X cards.


BTW: There is another subtle difference of both methods other than pushing other mechs into lava/spikes, forcing them to take damage cards and hence influencing the order in which damage cards are assigned. As far as I understood the rules so far (I only read the rules, but did not play the game yet), some damage cards leave you a decision on how to apply the effect. In this case, knowledge of other damage cards may influence your decisions and the rules do not say anything on whether you may look at all drawn damage cards before executing them.

I think my personal solution for X damage from X minions will be:

* Draw X cards from the damage deck without looking at them and put them face down next to your player board.
* Then resolve them one by one.

=> No unnecessary complexity, simple to execute, and easy to explain.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I do admit the tutorial description does imply drawing all before resolving, but it doesn't contradict drawing and resolving one at a time. The rulebook quote I've mentioned does outright contradict drawing all then resolving, though.

I would agree that you probably aren't meant to look at them or change the order prior to resolving, though.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Clipper, I think your confusion comes from the sentence: "Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time and in player order."

You think "one at a time" refer to cards, but it refer to players.
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