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Gilles Oth
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Hello,

I've got a few questions regarding the rules (and other things) for Bios:Genesis. Thanks in advance for your help.

1. Entropy Limit: You only check your own organisms to see if you can assign more than 1 biont to Refugia? Having a Foreign Gene in another player's organsims with green chromosomes doesn't benefit you?

2. Parasites: If a Disease Cube on a Parasite gets destroyed, I assume if also destroys the Mutation card it came from (if it was the last cube from that Mutation card)?

3. Chemoselectivity Rule: Can this (i.e. use 2 Catalysts as a Joker) also be used to buy Red Queen attacks, or to promote a Parasite?

4. Snail (Macroorganism): What's the meaning of the icon next to the green Endosymbiont (Gut Bacteria)? Is it supposed to be an HGT symbol (old design maybe)?

5. Trophy VP: An extinct Macroorgansims gives you 2 VP? One for the placard and one for the Macroorganism card?

Bonus question:
6. Macroorganisms: Any reason why the marine Marcooganisms are numbered 09 to 16?
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Matt Watkins
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Redamikanas wrote:
1. Entropy Limit: You only check your own organisms to see if you can assign more than 1 biont to Refugia? Having a Foreign Gene in another player's organsims with green chromosomes doesn't benefit you?


That's correct.

Redamikanas wrote:
2. Parasites: If a Disease Cube on a Parasite gets destroyed, I assume if also destroys the Mutation card it came from (if it was the last cube from that Mutation card)?


Correct. It also unpromotes the mutation if it lost the promotion cube.

Redamikanas wrote:
3. Chemoselectivity Rule: Can this (i.e. use 2 Catalysts as a Joker) also be used to buy Red Queen attacks, or to promote a Parasite?


Yes.

Redamikanas wrote:
4. Snail (Macroorganism): What's the meaning of the icon next to the green Endosymbiont (Gut Bacteria)? Is it supposed to be an HGT symbol (old design maybe)?


I haven't seen the physical cards, but it's definitely an HGT upgrade on the digital card.

Redamikanas wrote:
5. Trophy VP: An extinct Macroorgansims gives you 2 VP? One for the placard and one for the Macroorganism card?


Trophy VP are only for extinct organisms. When a macro goes extinct, it reverts to a bacterium. If the bacterium subsequently goes extinct, you'd get 1VP for the extinct bacterium and 1VP for the extinct macro.
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Phil Eklund
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Redamikanas wrote:


Bonus question:
6. Macroorganisms: Any reason why the marine Marcooganisms are numbered 09 to 16?


I agree with Matt on the other questions, although I am considering allowing hosts and foreign organisms you occupy to count as your greenest organism in future editions.

As for the bonus question, cards 1 through 4 were the landforms, and 5 through 8 were the parasites, so the macroorganisms began on card 09.
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Rafal Kruczek
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phileklund wrote:
Redamikanas wrote:


Bonus question:
6. Macroorganisms: Any reason why the marine Marcooganisms are numbered 09 to 16?


I agree with Matt on the other questions, although I am considering allowing hosts and foreign organisms you occupy to count as your greenest organism in future editions.

As for the bonus question, cards 1 through 4 were the landforms, and 5 through 8 were the parasites, so the macroorganisms began on card 09.

I wonder, how whole Entropy Limit being dependent on your "greenest" organism makes sense. Do I understand it correctly?
Player has only 3 bionts and when you have an organism , there are olny 2 available. So I can place 1 on refugium if my organism have no green chromosomes, and i can place both bionts my organism has green chromosome.
But if I have more than one orgamism and one of them is "the greenest" I have only one biont left, so it doesn't matter how many green chromosomes my organisms have.
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Phil Eklund
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The entropy limit limits the number of bionts you are allowed to have in Refugia. So bionts you have as part of organisms (parasites, bacteria, macroorganisms, etc.) do not count toward this limit.
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Matt Watkins
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phileklund wrote:
The entropy limit limits the number of bionts you are allowed to have in Refugia. So bionts you have as part of organisms (parasites, bacteria, macroorganisms, etc.) do not count toward this limit.


I think Rafal was saying that under the current rules, if you have more than one organism, you have at least two bionts deployed already, so it doesn't matter which is the greenest because you can always put your remaining biont on a refuge. In other words, you can never have 3 bionts assigned to refugia, and can only have 2 if you have a single microorganism with at least one green chromosome. Otherwise, you can only and always have one.
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Alexandre Santos
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Matt_W wrote:
Redamikanas wrote:
4. Snail (Macroorganism): What's the meaning of the icon next to the green Endosymbiont (Gut Bacteria)? Is it supposed to be an HGT symbol (old design maybe)?


I haven't seen the physical cards, but it's definitely an HGT upgrade on the digital card.


I posted a corrected version of the snail card.
 
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Rafal Kruczek
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Matt_W wrote:
phileklund wrote:
The entropy limit limits the number of bionts you are allowed to have in Refugia. So bionts you have as part of organisms (parasites, bacteria, macroorganisms, etc.) do not count toward this limit.


I think Rafal was saying that under the current rules, if you have more than one organism, you have at least two bionts deployed already, so it doesn't matter which is the greenest because you can always put your remaining biont on a refuge. In other words, you can never have 3 bionts assigned to refugia, and can only have 2 if you have a single microorganism with at least one green chromosome. Otherwise, you can only and always have one.

Exacly my thoughts , but on the other hand tis is CURRENT rules.
SO there may be some expansion/modification/houserule/rules change that would make "the greenest" rule non-trivial.
 
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Kyrill Melai
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Once I could recite whole episodes of Dexter's Laboratory.
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rafal100 wrote:
...
SO there may be some expansion/modification/houserule/rules change that would make "the greenest" rule non-trivial.


If you are saying that "the greenest" rule is trivial at the moment, then consider this.

At the start of the game, quickly grab a green organism (one with at least one green chromosome, possible your biont) and you can sent two biont to the refugia when everybody else is still toying around with only one. That gives you an edge, possible "stealing" other players refugia.

This edge isn't usefull during most of the game, but it is during some parts, especially the early game. At one point, I thought this would make player green overpowered.

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Rafal Kruczek
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NoDDs wrote:
rafal100 wrote:
...
SO there may be some expansion/modification/houserule/rules change that would make "the greenest" rule non-trivial.


If you are saying that "the greenest" rule is trivial at the moment, then consider this.

At the start of the game, quickly grab a green organism (one with at least one green chromosome, possible your biont) and you can sent two biont to the refugia when everybody else is still toying around with only one. That gives you an edge, possible "stealing" other players refugia.

This edge isn't usefull during most of the game, but it is during some parts, especially the early game. At one point, I thought this would make player green overpowered.


And another one who didn't understand. The restriction is probably good for balance. The wording is trivial.
In yout example, you have one orgamism so it is THE greenest. The most greenest organism from a set of one orgamism. It is a trivial majority in condition of the rule.
And if you have two orgamisms the effect is trivial.
 
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Rich James
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Unless you are the green player, owning an organism doesn't necessarily mean it has any green chromosomes. The wording of the rule is non-trivial. Now assuming you own an organism with a green chromosome, the math in the rule becomes trivial: if you own a green organism you can place your remaining bionts.
 
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Matt Watkins
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arjisme wrote:
Unless you are the green player, owning an organism doesn't necessarily mean it has any green chromosomes. The wording of the rule is non-trivial. Now assuming you own an organism with a green chromosome, the math in the rule becomes trivial: if you own a green organism you can place your remaining bionts.


"Greenest" is a trivial distinction if you only own one organism. It's that organism. If you own two organisms, you can always place your remaining biont, so it doesn't matter which is the greenest.
 
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Rich James
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It might be more productive for us to construct an alternate wording of the rule that would eliminate triviality. I haven't thought of a better wording though. It has to cover a few cases, but be reasonably succinct:

- I'm red and have no organisms
- I'm red and have one organism with (or without) green chromosomes
- I'm red and have two organisms with (or without) green chromosomes
- Same as above, but I want to also HGT one or more of my bionts to Refugia
- I'm red and have three organisms...

How to say neatly what the Entropy Limit is that covers these cases?

Here's a specific case: I'm red and have two organisms, one with one green chromosome, the other with none. What is my Entropy Limit? By rule, it is two. But I have only one unassigned biont, so that would seem to be trivial. Except I also want to HGT from one of my organisms to assign it to a Refugium. It's not trivial because I could HGT from my greenless organism to place a second biont in Refugia.
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Phil Eklund
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If you come up with a better wording for this rule, I will use it. The wording might be useful if ever the number of bionts is increased for the game players (for those combining games or in possible future expanded editions).
 
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Kyrill Melai
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I fear the rule will have some trivial parts unless you spell out the one situation where it applies, i.e something close to:

• Entropy Limits. If you have exactly one organism with at least one green chromosome then starting next turn you are allowed to assign two bionts to refugia.
• Limit Change. As soon as you loose your single organism or as soon as it no longer has any green chromosomes, remove one biont assigned to refugia if you currently have two assigned.

It is shorter, but does sound less interesting.
 
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Rich James
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The rule doesn't say that your Entropy limit is at least 1. Also, say my bionts are in 3 organisms of which only 1 has a green chromosome. Can I HGT from one of the greenless organisms to a Refugium? How about 2 bionts (if I leave the 3rd in the green organism)?

Perhaps these changes would work:

• Entropy Limit. Your entropy limit is always at least 1. If your bionts are in organisms with at least one green chromosome among them then starting next turn you are allowed to assign two bionts to refugia.
• Limit Change. Whenever the organisms your bionts reside in have no green chromosomes, immediately remove a Biont of your choice from Refugia if your limit is exceeded.
 
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Phil Eklund
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OK Rich, I used your ideas for the Living rules in E2, rewritten slightly as follows:

• Entropy Limit. The number of your Bionts that you are allowed to have in Refugia is always at least one. If one of your Bionts lives in an Organism with at least one green Chromosome or Organ, then starting next turn you are allowed to assign two Bionts to Refugia instead of one.
• Biont Cull. Whenever all the Organisms in which your Bionts reside in have no green Chromosomes or Organs, and you have more than one Biont assigned to Refugia, immediately remove one of them (your choice).
 
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