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Lobotomy» Forums » Rules

Subject: The rulebook need a correction and need to be rewritten. rss

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Peter Scholtz
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Hello guys, i have just tried the game. The game is from my perspective a really good game BUUUUTTT - A really amateur stuff there to ruin the whole beautiful production and nice mechanics. This game is not ready for retail and it definitelly need a new ruleset and cards reprints for backers.

- The cards has typos like DEFENCE on all defense cards.
- You read the rules and there you can find stuff like that - "in a single space, there if-" and on the other page there is no conection.
- The Vampires has a blood bond skill which is not described anywhere
- There is an skull icon on card which is not described in the rulebook - we assumed that this is for insanity.
- The lesbian vampires scenario notice that in case of handicap the thralls lose their chaotic skill. There is no mention that they have it.
- In the same scenario you have absolutely no clue in which direction the vampires will go, if every token is connected to each vamp or all three are moving in same direction.
- There is a cardboard 3D doors but the game is using double sided doors due that doors can be locked.
- In setup you have no idea based on rules where you should put the dead bodies, and where to put lockers and another "lockers" i assume.

The rules was not polished it was speeded up for Essen, because there is no excuse for such amateurism.

If the Titan forge will not correct the rulebook asap, they will bury the whole project, which is from my perspective really good - IF and only IF you will have the nerves from steel to go through the POOR and really peace of amateurism which is the rulebook itself and the typos on cards.

Be prepared to use your gamers intuition and house rules just to keep the game going. Because the game is far from finished.
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François Mahieu
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Thank you for the feedback. So this was true.

 
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Stephanie Gustafsson
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Quote:
- In setup you have no idea based on rules where you should put the dead bodies, and where to put lockers and another "lockers" i assume.


The lockers having a glowing rectangle on the boards for where to place them. Dead bodies are placed in a space with no number with blood (Can have multiple options).

Quote:
There is a cardboard 3D doors but the game is using double sided doors due that doors can be locked.

The 3D doors just balance on top of the tokens as an extra visual so you know where the doors are at a glance.

Quote:
In the same scenario you have absolutely no clue in which direction the vampires will go, if every token is connected to each vamp or all three are moving in same direction.


Rules state each thrall is connected to a vampire and they move together. The vampires will split up and begin moving towards their token. Once they are empowered by the token they will focus on the players. They can pick any token to focus on. There is no point for all the vampire to go for the same token since the token is used up to upgrade one of them.

Quote:
- The lesbian vampires scenario notice that in case of handicap the thralls lose their chaotic skill. There is no mention that they have it.


The three patients are the vampire thralls. But I'm not sure what the chaotic skill is either. It might be the swarm bonus.
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Ben Robertson
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Just a note: Defense is the American spelling of Defence. Both are correct depending on where you live.
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Adam Lanham
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
jammerben87 wrote:
Just a note: Defense is the American spelling of Defence. Both are correct depending on where you live.


upon re-reading the OP, i wondered if he was trolling with some of the use of the english language in the post and some of the wording, maybe it's not OPs' 1st speaking language but still
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George Allen
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
I hate seeing errors in rule books but you can not say this will bury a game because I have seen many errors in bigger companies like FF & CMON and these games are just fine. You can look through my collection and you could probably find an error in more than half of these games. Isn't this also why some games have an errata or even a second edition? I hope they can fix all the errors, but I am not going to trash it because they missed a few things. Also, they have explained that they hired a professional company and that English is not there first language and they were very upset about the errors and are trying to find ways to fix this.
 
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Russ Williams
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Grizzlylizard wrote:
upon re-reading the OP, i wondered if he was trolling with some of the use of the english language in the post and some of the wording, maybe it's not OPs' 1st speaking language but still

The thread subject's "the cards has typos" seemed ironic...
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Magic Pink
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
poifpoif wrote:
Thank you for the feedback. So this was true.



One person's opinion does not make it true, especially when they don't have a very solid grasp of English either.

From the pics we've seen of the cards it all looks very usable.
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R.P. Kraul
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
silentxsound wrote:
I hate seeing errors in rule books but you can not say this will bury a game because I have seen many errors in bigger companies like FF & CMON and these games are just fine. You can look through my collection and you could probably find an error in more than half of these games. Isn't this also why some games have an errata or even a second edition? I hope they can fix all the errors, but I am not going to trash it because they missed a few things. Also, they have explained that they hired a professional company and that English is not there first language and they were very upset about the errors and are trying to find ways to fix this.


Some of the narrative text on sample cards is awful, and that's a hell of a detriment for a thematic text-heavy game. I know they said they were ripped off by the editing company, but what were the company's credentials, and where were they located? Why not hire an editor from the US or UK? If you're going to translate something to English, you had better hire someone who's edited English extensively. In the grand scheme--that of a game that raised half a million--editing cost is pretty minimal, though extremely important. TFG viewed language far too casually, and now the backers have to suffer.
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
silentxsound wrote:
Also, they have explained that they hired a professional company and that English is not there first language and they were very upset about the errors and are trying to find ways to fix this.


So they say. I dunno what's more suspicious, that they didn't say anything about translation til the game was already printed and ppl were complaining or that they hired a "professional" translator that didn't know how to translate. My Spidey sense says it's b.s. to cover what a rush job this was.
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Peter Scholtz
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
At first thank you Stephanie for explanation. We done this in same fashion, but it was an intuitive decision.

For the vampires, i think that simple number on each token will be useful. Also there is no exact description where to put the tokens. From one point it seems like they are randomized, on the other, it seems like they are placed on different tiles, each.

And little things like this make me a little bit confused and take some of attraction from the game itself. Just because i was constantly was aware of mistakes and bad descriptions.

Defence - I didnt know that, but i am definitely sure about the wording dogma when you are launching the game. When you are using the word defence.. use it everywhere in the game.

once again, dont get me wrong guys the game is really good. I enjoy it and definitely want to make its way into my collection. But when we tolerate this, the companies will not make the erratas. I personally think that this game need a polished act from the native English speaker-gamer-corrector.
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Felix Grundmann
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
@thread opener Peter Scholtz
Why did you open two threads with the same content?

Regards
GeneralGrundmann
 
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Sebastian Kozak
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Hi Peter

Thank you for the feedback, At this moment we are working with the native speaking kickstarter backers on a revised rulebook and we are aware of these problems. I am following all these works and all the things you mentioned will be adressed there.

I am sorry for this inconvenience, I also hate when the rules are written in a way that force you to interpret some of them by yoursel, that will not be the problem soon, I promise.

As for the problems you mentioned - Stephanie answered most of them and she answered correctly. Still I would like to add something:

1. About the defence/defence - it will be unified just like on cards so Defence.
2. Yes skull icon is an Insanity symbol
3. Cardboard doors are just for decoration. Put them on top of the door token if you like. They were added to the game during the kickstarter campaign and serve no other purpose.

The body token question was answered so now about vampire scenario.. yes in a current form it can be interpret in a lot of ways. There are also some things missing (this unfortunate "Chaotic" skill). I have no explanation why so I just need to ask you for few more days of patience until we will revise the rulebook. In a meantime I create a FAQ topic on these forums to collect first feedback and I will try to answer all questions asked there.

Also I am very glad that you like the game, it means a lot to me.
Regards
Sebastian
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Stephanie Gustafsson
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Quote:
For the vampires, i think that simple number on each token will be useful. Also there is no exact description where to put the tokens. From one point it seems like they are randomized, on the other, it seems like they are placed on different tiles, each.


The vampire tokens are randomised using the D12 only and you place one each on segments B,C, & D. A is the entrance token.

The thrall token is only used to denote that these three mental patients are different from the normal mental patients that spawn on the map and that they must stick together with their respective vampire.
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Peter Scholtz
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Re: The rules are terrible, the cards has typos on them!!!
Dear Sebastian,

I really, really appreciate that you answered with constructive feedback and very quickly. This is something that shows how important is a customer for you! Great Job!

If what you just wrote is true, then i am looking forward for another smash game in my collection. This game has using a unique mechanics and if you make some more polish rules it will be a perfect game.

Gameplay from my perspective is without a doubt 9/10 for me. I am not making any reviews till moment you will release the new ruleset.

PS: Is it a way how to order addons from KS? Like Jack, Cthulhu or Alice?

Thank you.

@Felix: Corrected.. thank you.

EDIT: I summarized the pain-points into faq thread.
 
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Lopezzz wrote:
Also I am very glad that you like the game, it means a lot to me.
Regards
Sebastian


Sebastian, in the FAQ thread you say that you are a freelancer so can't answer any questions about production. Exactly how much involvement with the game have you had and since when? I ask because your English is very good and I don't understand why TFG didn't get you to proof the rules/cards...
 
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Joe Price
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Doubting Tom wrote:
Lopezzz wrote:
Also I am very glad that you like the game, it means a lot to me.
Regards
Sebastian


Sebastian, in the FAQ thread you say that you are a freelancer so can't answer any questions about production. Exactly how much involvement with the game have you had and since when? I ask because your English is very good and I don't understand why TFG didn't get you to proof the rules/cards...


I don't want to pick on anyone or anything here as his English is fine conversational English, but from the sample here, it is not good technical English for manuals. That's not to say he can't/doesn't clean it up for formal work! Commas in particular can make or break the interpretation of a sentence.

Quote:
A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and proceeds to fire it at the other patrons.

"Why?" asks the confused, surviving waiter amidst the carnage, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"Well, I'm a panda," he says. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."
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Sebastian Kozak
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Hi
Joe is right - my English can be good for conversation or reading but not to check the grammar errors or proofread the manual
The manual was written in Polish and then translated. I checked if the idea of "what author has on his mind" preserved.

Cheers
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Ray Smith
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As a backer of dozens of Kickstarter campaigns, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I'm in a constant dilemma about Kickstarter projects. On one hand, it shouldn't be a surprise when snafus occur. Trying to coordinate production from the other side of the world, delays from holidays, shipping and customs bottle necks, etc., all contribute to the unfortunate circumstances delaying timely delivery to backers.

On the other hand, Kickstarters did not start yesterday. Individuals or companies should now have no excuses as to what to expect. All of the above is now regrettably the norm. But, is it too much to ask for properly edited components without a slew of FAQs?

Even though I've been totally ripped off twice, and have literally waited years for delivery (Katalyka, Teramyyd), I still totally support my hobby and the wonderful creative designers and artists. Only if publishers are willing to manufacture locally and therefore charge customers more for their products, delays and typos like those within Lobotomy will continue.
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Judgement Dave
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Sorcerer333 wrote:
If the Titan forge will not correct the rulebook asap

I know that TFG have some KS backers looking at the rulebook already. I'm quite certain that many of the ambiguities, omissions and errors (of which there aren't really lots) will be caught and corrected.

Sorcerer333 wrote:

Because the game is far from finished.

I feel that this is overly harsh in the sense it was meant. There are errors, but far fewer than many feared during the KS. It's certainly a very playable game - just one with a few minor ambiguities and omissions.

Lopezzz wrote:
1. About the defence/defence - it will be unified just like on cards so Defence.

I actually suspect that it will settle on 'defense' as the game will be using US spellings.
 
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Peter
Germany
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sorry. I just read the rulebook and evertyhing was pretty clear for me. I don't mind minor typos if any.
Will have my first game tomorrow hopefully but see any problem explaining the game to my group.

really cannot understand all these comments on the rulebook
 
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