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Alchemists: The King's Golem» Forums » General

Subject: The King's Golem without app or webpage? rss

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Karl
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Is there any way to play the King's golem without technical devices?
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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Probably with a smart guy who will have to improvise.
 
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Kris Boyen
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The only thing that we don't know is how random the 4 possible elements are that are proposed in the library. Also, there is no easy way to present these to the single person who gets to view them. Except for this, all responses from the app were open, for everyone to see.

In general, I don't think it is not possible to get a single person to do this, I just think it gets more complex to do it, and the preferred way for me will still be to play it with the app, as it is already before the expansion.
 
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Kristo Vaher
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It's sad if expansion cannot be played without digital device as the base game can be.
 
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Philip Morton
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Karian wrote:
The only thing that we don't know is how random the 4 possible elements are that are proposed in the library. Also, there is no easy way to present these to the single person who gets to view them. Except for this, all responses from the app were open, for everyone to see.

Hmm....extract one of each ingredient card from the deck before the game for use by the game master, shuffle the set-aside ingredient cards and hand them four to choose from?
 
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Carl Bussema
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Use playing cards, Ace through 8, or notecards with the ingredient names, or something like that.
 
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Zdeněk Vilušínský
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As for Golem, I see no reason why it should not work without an app. Just set the alchemicals, then decide which properties will make chest and ears react with respect to rules and finally calculate the exact way to wake up the Golem just as a player would.

Though I see no reason why would anyone played the game without the app, but that is another story.
 
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Karl
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App no longer supported, out of battery on your cellpone, ... Lots of potential reasons
 
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Zdeněk Vilušínský
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kilrah wrote:
App no longer supported, out of battery on your cellpone, ... Lots of potential reasons

Just because an edge case exists does not mean it's probable.
Unsupported app does not affect it's placement on market nor in my device or apk backup.
Power scenario is also unlikely - given availability of powerbanks and people's habit of keeping power cables on them because of how current phones drain batteries.

Mind you, I really appreciate how CGE went out of their way and provided a physical means for a Game Master, but the fact that it requires a person to sit at the session and not play the game, just emulate the app, is what makes me wander why would anyone want to do that.

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Carl Bussema
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I think the Golem does work if you just decide "Green small = ears, Blue small = chest" for example. From that if you just calculate everything through correctly, you would know which two ingredients will wake up the Golem. Would be nice to have a board or something to help make sure you get that calculated correctly though, since it's not as simple as just mixing two ingredients.

So assuming that's true, you just need any 8 unique cards that you can shuffle when needed for the books, and then just know how the Golem works, and you can completely play without the app.

Could they have included materials for that? Probably. But does it add $5 to the cost for everyone, or cost CGE an extra $2 or something per game sold if they don't raise MSRP? I think people who are going to buy the expansion are 99% playing with the app already, and will continue to do so. The 1% or less of players who don't use the app can easily use things they have on hand to facilitate the small changes in the app, or maybe CGE can eventually sell an "offline kit" for $5 or something through the geekstore.
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Karl
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ZVilusinsky wrote:

Just because an edge case exists does not mean it's probable.


I didn't claim it was probable, even tho I do not find the power scenario that unlikely. I don't know anyone with a power bank for example. And I do play games in places with no possibility to plug in a phone (at least in vicinity of the gaming tables).
You just asked why would someone and I gave you reasons for it.
Another VERY important reason for me is that this way the algorithm is known and therefore its easier to port the app should it ever be necessary.

ZVilusinsky wrote:

Mind you, I really appreciate how CGE went out of their way and provided a physical means for a Game Master, but the fact that it requires a person to sit at the session and not play the game, just emulate the app, is what makes me wander why would anyone want to do that.


Its not thaaaaat hard to find someone doing the job if either you are the explainer anyways and not playing the game or if there are multiple tables with games and you ask a gamer on the next table to help out. I kinda like that option (and wouldn't have bought the game if it didn't exist) even tho I usually use the app as well.

InfoCynic wrote:

or maybe CGE can eventually sell an "offline kit" for $5 or something through the geekstore.


I'd definitely buy such a kit.
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Mark Taraba
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ZVilusinsky wrote:

Mind you, I really appreciate how CGE went out of their way and provided a physical means for a Game Master, but the fact that it requires a person to sit at the session and not play the game, just emulate the app, is what makes me wander why would anyone want to do that.

Why was Werewolf so popular before the moderator-less variants? Moderators would spend an hour or more of their time running a game for larger groups of people.

===

I think a small pack of cards to return results like the golemn chest and golemn ears and other things is all that are neede to make it work. Something the size of a promo like just about everything else that's in the BGG store.

I think it could be 7 cards. Six results the GM can return and one to hold the solution. Sun, moon, blank golemn, ear golemn, chest golemn, ear & chest golemn, and a master chest and ear golem solution card which you can put the colored results tokens on. Red+ on the ear space of that card would be large red on the golemn ear. Blue- on the chest would be small blue.
 
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Philip Morton
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taraba wrote:
I think it could be 7 cards. Six results the GM can return and one to hold the solution. Sun, moon, blank golemn, ear golemn, chest golemn, ear & chest golemn, and a master chest and ear golem solution card which you can put the colored results tokens on. Red+ on the ear space of that card would be large red on the golemn ear. Blue- on the chest would be small blue.

Are golem-test results public knowledge or not? Library-book results clearly have to be hidden because the app shows the selected ingredient with the result, but the golem-test result screen doesn't.
 
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David desJardins
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Chrondeath wrote:
Are golem-test results public knowledge or not?


I don't think so. The experiment rules in the base game explicitly say, "Show the result to the other players." The test golem rules in the expansion don't say that. Although it would seem more thematic if they did.
 
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Mark Taraba
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Chrondeath wrote:
taraba wrote:
I think it could be 7 cards. Six results the GM can return and one to hold the solution. Sun, moon, blank golemn, ear golemn, chest golemn, ear & chest golemn, and a master chest and ear golem solution card which you can put the colored results tokens on. Red+ on the ear space of that card would be large red on the golemn ear. Blue- on the chest would be small blue.

Are golem-test results public knowledge or not? Library-book results clearly have to be hidden because the app shows the selected ingredient with the result, but the golem-test result screen doesn't.

The rules don't specify either way but test results that you show to other people are displayed on a board for everyone to see and there's no new place to put golemn info. Mostly they have you show things in the base game so that people know if you can make the hero potions and the ending exhibition, which exclude others when you do those. With the golemn you don't block points from others with the exception of who has the most and least published info during the 5th turn conference.
 
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David desJardins
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taraba wrote:
Mostly they have you show things in the base game so that people know if you can make the hero potions and the ending exhibition


That's not true at all. Knowing and using the results of other players' experiments for deduction is a big part of the game.
 
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Mark Taraba
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DaviddesJ wrote:
taraba wrote:
Mostly they have you show things in the base game so that people know if you can make the hero potions and the ending exhibition


That's not true at all. Knowing and using the results of other players' experiments for deduction is a big part of the game.

You don't get to see the ingredients of the experiment so I don't know what information you're using from the results except just knowing they can make a Red+ potion.
 
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David desJardins
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taraba wrote:
You don't get to see the ingredients of the experiment so I don't know what information you're using from the results except just knowing they can make a Red+ potion.


Here's an easy example. A player starts with 2 ingredients, gets 1 ingredient from their order space, and then takes a scorpion from the forage space. Then they perform two experiments, one on a student and one on themself, producing Red+ and Blue-. You now know that Scorpion must be either Red+ or Blue-.

Another kind of example. The player on the next turn publishes the theory that Fern is Red+, Blue-, Green-. They are much more likely to be hedging green than red or blue.
 
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Mark Taraba
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Here's an easy example. A player starts with 2 ingredients, gets 1 ingredient from their order space, and then takes a scorpion from the forage space. Then they perform two experiments, one on a student and one on themself, producing Red+ and Blue-. You now know that Scorpion must be either Red+ or Blue-.

And that's exactly why you shouldn't experiment with the last of your ingredients if you've taken them face up from foraging.
 
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David desJardins
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taraba wrote:
And that's exactly why you shouldn't experiment with the last of your ingredients if you've taken them face up from foraging.


I'm pretty sure I'll do better without your advice.
 
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Mark Taraba
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DaviddesJ wrote:
taraba wrote:
And that's exactly why you shouldn't experiment with the last of your ingredients if you've taken them face up from foraging.


I'm pretty sure I'll do better without your advice.

As usual, you are the smartest of us all
 
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Philip Morton
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Here's an easy example. A player starts with 2 ingredients, gets 1 ingredient from their order space, and then takes a scorpion from the forage space. Then they perform two experiments, one on a student and one on themself, producing Red+ and Blue-. You now know that Scorpion must be either Red+ or Blue-.

The worse outcome is when you do that, get the SAME result for both tests, and then sit there hoping that nobody noticed your number of cards in hand / what you took from the lineup.
 
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