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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Free triggered abilities rss

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Matthias Flierl
Germany
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Some assets like "Hard Knocks" offer free triggered abilities to convert 1 resource to +1 in certain skills for a test.

Can you use the free triggered abilities more than once during an action/ability window? (i.e. for instance pay 10 ressources to boost a skill by 10 for a test)
 
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Andrew Keddie
Wales
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Yes. There's no limit (unless otherwise specified) to how many abilities can be activated within a window.
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Orvis Hammond

Oregon
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I read and re-read the rules trying to answer this very question, and found this:

Triggering Condition (rules ref 20)

Each eligible ability that triggers in reference to a specified timing point may be used once each time that timing point triggers.


Based on my reading of the rules and the card ("spend one resource, get +1 for this skill test), I would think no. The skill test is the triggering condition, so each ability may only trigger once per skill test.

Although, if you had multiple copies of the card in play, you could trigger each instance.


(edited to correct page reference)
 
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Andrew Keddie
Wales
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pookageist wrote:
I read and re-read the rules trying to answer this very question, and found this:

Triggering Condition (rules ref 22)

Each eligible ability that triggers in reference to a specified timing point may be used once each time that timing point triggers.


Based on my reading of the rules and the card ("spend one resource, get +1 for this skill test), I would think no. The skill test is the triggering condition, so each ability may only trigger once per skill test.

Although, if you had multiple copies of the card in play, you could trigger each instance.


But this card isn't being triggered by a timing point. A trigger would use a word like "when" or "whenever".
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Ian Wallace-Moyer
United States
Lebanon
New Hampshire
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fliermt wrote:
Some assets like "Hard Knocks" offer free triggered abilities to convert 1 resource to +1 in certain skills for a test.

Can you use the free triggered abilities more than once during an action/ability window? (i.e. for instance pay 10 ressources to boost a skill by 10 for a test)


Free triggered abilities (the lightning squiggle) can be activated as many times as you can pay for them unless otherwise stated (e.g. Skid's character ability to spend 2 resources for an extra action).

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Simon C
United Kingdom
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pookageist wrote:
I read and re-read the rules trying to answer this very question, and found this:

Triggering Condition (rules ref 22)

Each eligible ability that triggers in reference to a specified timing point may be used once each time that timing point triggers.


Based on my reading of the rules and the card ("spend one resource, get +1 for this skill test), I would think no. The skill test is the triggering condition, so each ability may only trigger once per skill test.

Although, if you had multiple copies of the card in play, you could trigger each instance.


I'm afraid that isn't right. The skill test isn't a triggering condition for Hard Knocks. Hard Knocks is a Free Action that only makes sense to use during a test, but it doesn't say "when [such-and-such] happens", which is what a triggered condition has. Triggered conditions will usually be identified by the curved arrow or plain text, never by the lightning bolt.

Given it's not a triggered condition, Andrew is right: you're able to use this (on a single copy) as many times as you have resources for.
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Orvis Hammond

Oregon
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I will admit, I could be wrong. I've argued it both ways in my head over the past two days while looking for an answer.

But a lightening bolt symbol IS a triggered ability, and triggered abilities require a triggering condition. All three ability icons are listed under Triggered Abilities in the Rules Reference. Immediately following are the rules for Triggering Conditions.

A triggering condition indicates the timing point at which an ability may be triggered. Most triggering conditions use the word "when" or "after" to establish their relation to the specified timing point."


The rules says MOST, not all... so from what I can tell, the skill test is the triggering condition, as it would make no sense to trigger the ability at any other time. Which bring us back to my initial point: Each eligible ability that triggers in reference to a specified timing point may be used once each time the timing point occurs.

So, here is what I see: The skill test counts as the trigger and timing point for the Free Triggered Ability. Triggered abilities can only be used once per timing point.


Again, I'll admit, I could be wrong. We will likely see this point addressed in the first FAQ, as it is possible to make a case either way.
 
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Marco Donghi
Italy
Near Milan
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From the rules reference:
"Each [reaction triggered] ability may be triggered only once each
time the specified condition on the ability is met."

I infer that is not true for the other types of triggered abilities: free triggered abilities and action triggered abilities. Otherwise, what would be the difference between free and reaction triggered abilities?
 
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Richard A. Edwards
United States
Lacey
Washington
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It is my opinion, though I cannot find a specific proof while wading through the legalese rules reference, that the intent is that whenever there is a player window to activate free abilities (anything with a lightning bolt), you can activate any number of free triggered abilities at that point, including the same one more than once, as long as you pay all associated costs each time.
 
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Robbie M.
United States
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SirRoke wrote:
It is my opinion, though I cannot find a specific proof while wading through the legalese rules reference, that the intent is that whenever there is a player window to activate free abilities (anything with a lightning bolt), you can activate any number of free triggered abilities at that point, including the same one more than once, as long as you pay all associated costs each time.

Agreed. If you have three resources, you can raise a skill three times. This is a very useful cycle of cards.
 
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Scott Dockery
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pookageist wrote:
But a lightening bolt symbol IS a triggered ability, and triggered abilities require a triggering condition.

It's triggered when the player opts to use it in one of the free trigger windows. You'll note that action triggered abilities are also triggered abilities, and you can perform as many of those as you can afford. Free triggered abilities are basically like Actions from LotR.

If the intent had been for you to only trigger it once per skill check, the card would have read "[Reaction] When you make a skill test, spend 1 resource to gain +1 [X] or [Y]."

Also,
Quote:
A triggering condition indicates the timing point at which an ability may be triggered. Most triggering conditions use the word "when" or "after" to establish their relation to the specified timing point."

Is listed under "Triggering Conditions," which is a completely separate entry from "Triggered Abilities"; they are only adjacent because the list is alphabetical. It's only relevant for reaction triggered abilities and Forced effects; free and action-costed triggered abilities do not have conditions.
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Orvis Hammond

Oregon
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I'm still uncertain, but now I'm leaning more toward the consensus that it can be used multiple times.


rsdockery wrote:

Is listed under "Triggering Conditions," which is a completely separate entry from "Triggered Abilities"; they are only adjacent because the list is alphabetical. It's only relevant for reaction triggered abilities and Forced effects; free and action-costed triggered abilities do not have conditions.



Yup, it's the language for Triggering Condition (RR 20) that's the root of my potential objection.

After another close reading of the rules reference, I see the phrase "triggering condition" only shows up with statements regarding reaction triggered abilities; implying free and action triggered abilities do not have conditions. (Thank you Scott)

But, the entry Triggering Condition refers to "an ability" or "each eligible ability" with no indication that it only applies to reaction triggered abilities. A simple reading suggested to me that triggering conditions apply to all abilities. Now I am not so sure.

If the rules for Triggering Condition clearly stated they applied only to reaction triggered abilities, I would never have gone down this rabbit hole. Just insert a round arrow symbol for reaction triggered abilities in that first sentence for Triggering Condition, and there is no more ambiguity.
 
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Scott Dockery
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Okay, let's assume that Triggering Conditions was meant to apply to free triggered abilities. Skids's unique weakness, Hospital Debts, has the following ability: "[Free Trigger] Move 1 resource from your resource pool to Hospital Debts. (Limit twice per round.)" What is the triggering condition? It can't have anything to do with the start or end of the round, since you can use it twice per round. Is it whenever you gain a resource? Whenever you go from having no resources to having any?

Furthermore, the same logic that would apply conditions to free triggered abilities would apply it to action-costed ones as well. Are you only able to use each copy of Knife once per game, or once per enemy, or once per round? Is Daisy stuck with the Necronomicon forever, since the conditions in which she can activate its ability (namely, that she has the Necronomicon, and it has horror on it) can never recur?

As you can see, treating free triggered (or action-costed) abilities as if they were reaction triggered leads to a lot of nonsense. You can use action-costed abilities as much as you like during your turn, so long as you have the actions to pay for them. Likewise, you can use free triggered abilities as much as you like during any fast player card window, so long as you can pay the associated costs.
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David Roberts
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Was looking for an answer to this and came across this thread.

I'm in the middle of playing the starter deck for Wendy Adams. It sounds like with the "Dig Deep" card, I could spend as many resources as I have available to me to boost my strength or agility during a single test. So with 10 resources, I could boost her Strength from 1 to 11 in a single fight test against an enemy?
 
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Jeff Kayati
United States
Worthington
Ohio
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dmroberts wrote:
Was looking for an answer to this and came across this thread.

I'm in the middle of playing the starter deck for Wendy Adams. It sounds like with the "Dig Deep" card, I could spend as many resources as I have available to me to boost my strength or agility during a single test. So with 10 resources, I could boost her Strength from 1 to 11 in a single fight test against an enemy?


Correct
 
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Matthew Sigal
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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dmroberts wrote:
Was looking for an answer to this and came across this thread.

I'm in the middle of playing the starter deck for Wendy Adams. It sounds like with the "Dig Deep" card, I could spend as many resources as I have available to me to boost my strength or agility during a single test. So with 10 resources, I could boost her Strength from 1 to 11 in a single fight test against an enemy?


Yup.
 
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