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Mechs vs. Minions» Forums » Rules

Subject: Damage Prevention rss

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Jim Maxcy
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Had a couple questions regarding the distribution of damage and cards that prevent it. First up is Skewer:

Quote:
...Before drawing damage you may instead scrap this minion.


What exactly gets blocked here? Say you take damage from 2 minions. Do you prevent the damage from both by discarding the minion on Skewer or only one of the damage cards drawn?

Same question with Corki's Do A Barrel Roll!

Quote:
Play when you would take damage.

Take no damage.

Move to an adjacent space and face any direction.


Again, if two minions were attaching Corki would he take no damage from either or only one of the two? Additionally, after the movement would Corki take damage from any of the minions he is adjacent to after his movement or is this blocked by the card effect as well?

We played it that taking damage means any amount of damage and that cards like Skewer and Do A Barrel Roll! prevent any of that damage that would be taken for the round. Is this correct?
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James Palmer
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I've gotten confirmation that:

1) Skewer only negates 1 damage.

2) Fuel Tank negates all damage.

I am positive that Corki's Barrel Roll negates all damage, from the wording "Take no damage" and the fact that the schematic would be really weak compared to other schematics if it only negated one damage.
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Frederick Ernst
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Felkor wrote:
I've gotten confirmation that:

1) Skewer only negates 1 damage.

2) Fuel Tank negates all damage.

I am positive that Corki's Barrel Roll negates all damage, from the wording "Take no damage" and the fact that the schematic would be really weak compared to other schematics if it only negated one damage.


Felkor Speaks the Truth.
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Chris Schenck
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Felkor wrote:
I've gotten confirmation that:

1) Skewer only negates 1 damage.

2) Fuel Tank negates all damage.

I am positive that Corki's Barrel Roll negates all damage, from the wording "Take no damage" and the fact that the schematic would be really weak compared to other schematics if it only negated one damage.


Ok, thank you for the follow-up!

The wording on those cards is pretty much the opposite of what they should be then. Skewer says "before drawing damage" which sounds like maybe the entire draw damage step. Fuel Tank says "instead of drawing a damage card" which sounds singular, or at least more singular than the wording on Skewer.

Thank you for clarifying. We'll play them correctly now.

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Jorgen Peddersen
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arcnarenth wrote:
Had a couple questions regarding the distribution of damage and cards that prevent it. First up is Skewer:

Quote:
...Before drawing damage you may instead scrap this minion.


What exactly gets blocked here? Say you take damage from 2 minions. Do you prevent the damage from both by discarding the minion on Skewer or only one of the damage cards drawn?

We apparently (edit: OK, that should no longer be merely apparent, it's confirmed; I hadn't seen the above posts, especially Mr. Piddlesworth's) have official word you only block 1 damage with a loaded Skewer, but there is a huge issue with that ruling and other cards, so I think it merits further discussion with the devs until we figure things out properly.

Quote:
Same question with Corki's Do A Barrel Roll!

Quote:
Play when you would take damage.

Take no damage.

Move to an adjacent space and face any direction.


Again, if two minions were attaching Corki would he take no damage from either or only one of the two? Additionally, after the movement would Corki take damage from any of the minions he is adjacent to after his movement or is this blocked by the card effect as well?

This on thankfully seems clear from the text. Taking no damage should block all the damage you would have taken. When doing minion damage, you calculate how much you would take, then take it. Thus, Corki would not take damage from minions where he ends up; as he already calculated damage from minions earlier on.

Quote:
We played it that taking damage means any amount of damage and that cards like Skewer and Do A Barrel Roll! prevent any of that damage that would be taken for the round. Is this correct?

Skewer is only 1 but I find that somewhat insane given the wording. Barrel Roll and Fuel Tank, you would avoid all of the damage from a single source, but could still take damage for the round from a different source. For example, if you Barrel Rolled into lava, you would take damage from the lava, even though you avoided damage from the minions..
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Kory Stevens
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I haven't seen the cards yet, but its is clear from the wording of the cards that skewer and fuel tank revent a differing amount of damage, or is it something we have to remember?
 
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Chris Schenck
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sabaki wrote:
I haven't seen the cards yet, but its is clear from the wording of the cards that skewer and fuel tank revent a differing amount of damage, or is it something we have to remember?

It's something you'll have to remember. The clarification discussed in this thread is not self-evident on the cards.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Here is the wording of the other cards according to the rulebooks:



I have no clue why the card that mentions "a damage" blocks all damage and the card that blocks 'damage', with extremely similar wording to Barrel Roll, only blocks a single damage.

There is no way, as far as I can see, to figure out which is which from the wording, so are we really going to need to ask a dev about every single card that blocks damage to determine how much it blocks?

Edit: Could we perhaps have a discussion whether the official stance could be changed to such cards just always blocking all damage? That would at least make things consistent rather than having to get a ruling on every single card.

I'm sorry to be firm with this response, but it really would be very weird to have such vague wording.
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Chris Schenck
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I agree, Jorgen. The wording is messed up, but since one of the designers just chimed in explaining the intent, it's clear how they want them to function. It'll probably go into the FAQ soon.

I suspect this may be one of those things that they clear up on future print runs by changing the actual wording of the cards to be more precise.
 
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Chris Cantrell
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Skewer prevents one point of damage as once one minion absorbs it, the minion goes away (since they can only take one point of damage). You have to decide to use Skewer before you draw the card - you can't, for instance, say "Oh, I drew a glitch, I'm ok with that. I won't use the Skewer after all."

Fuel Tank and Corki's Barrel Roll prevent damage from all sources. The exception to this is Corki rolling into Lava would still cause you to take damage.

Another option, though, is to walk into Lava, and use the barrel roll to get past it without taking damage. Fuel Tank and Skewer are both great cards when you know you'll be traveling through Lava or when you're having to pick up and return crystal shards, such as in Seige. It's very possible in Seige to pick up a Crystal Shard and then have minions spawn around you and you get into an ugly cycle of continuing to drop it as they continue to spawn.
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Chris Cantrell
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cbs42 wrote:
I agree, Jorgen. The wording is messed up, but since one of the designers just chimed in explaining the intent, it's clear how they want them to function. It'll probably go into the FAQ soon.

I suspect this may be one of those things that they clear up on future print runs by changing the actual wording of the cards to be more precise.


This.
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Jim Maxcy
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I don't remember the official ruling, but I know there was a thread that asked whether damage was Draw-Resolve-Draw-Resole or Draw-Draw-Resolve-Resolve. I guess in either case Fuel Tank and Skewer are treated as interupts to the damage draw. In Fuel Tank's case it blows up any surrounding minions that would have dealt more damage so you wouldn't draw those cards. With Skewer it seems you interrupt to negate the first damage draw and then continue with the rest of the draws and resolutions. That's what makes the most sense to me given the official rulings.
 
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Blake Thurston
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have the game yet, it's still being shipped), but Fuel Tank blocks all the damage simply because you trigger it when you would receive your first damage and then it blows up and kills all other sources of damage. So there is no longer any minions left to damage you further.
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Jim Maxcy
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Riot Kades wrote:

Another option, though, is to walk into Lava, and use the barrel roll to get past it without taking damage. Fuel Tank and Skewer are both great cards when you know you'll be traveling through Lava or when you're having to pick up and return crystal shards, such as in Seige. It's very possible in Seige to pick up a Crystal Shard and then have minions spawn around you and you get into an ugly cycle of continuing to drop it as they continue to spawn.


Thanks for the strategy tip! Hmm... Could you use Skewer in a similar manner? Essentially using the skewered minion as a 'bridge' over the lava? devil
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Yeah, I'm not going to question the ruling any further as the official stance is clear.

I just hope there aren't any more cards that we are going to have to ask about to determine if they block one card or all damage.

Edit: And I just noticed Chris agreeing that there will be FAQ/errata entries to fix this, so I'm happy.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Riptorch wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have the game yet, it's still being shipped), but Fuel Tank blocks all the damage simply because you trigger it when you would receive your first damage and then it blows up and kills all other sources of damage. So there is no longer any minions left to damage you further.

No.

You calculate how much damage you take before you draw any of the cards, then you draw all of them and then resolve each card one at a time.

Despite its (current) wording, Fuel Tank stops you from drawing all the cards you would have drawn in the same way Barrel Roll does.

arcnarenth wrote:
Thanks for the strategy tip! Hmm... Could you use Skewer in a similar manner? Essentially using the skewered minion as a 'bridge' over the lava? devil

You could certainly do that as the card triggers simply when you would draw damage. Any source of damage could be mitigated by Skewer...
 
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Chris Schenck
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arcnarenth wrote:
I don't remember the official ruling, but I know there was a thread that asked whether damage was Draw-Resolve-Draw-Resole or Draw-Draw-Resolve-Resolve.

It was here, as posted by Chris Cantrell:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/23986922#23986922
 
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Blake Thurston
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Clipper wrote:
Riptorch wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have the game yet, it's still being shipped), but Fuel Tank blocks all the damage simply because you trigger it when you would receive your first damage and then it blows up and kills all other sources of damage. So there is no longer any minions left to damage you further.

No.

You calculate how much damage you take before you draw any of the cards, then you draw all of them and then resolve each card one at a time.

Despite its (current) wording, Fuel Tank stops you from drawing all the cards you would have drawn in the same way Barrel Roll does.


That is not at all true:
Rules wrote:
Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one at a time
and in player order. It’s possible for one player’s damage to
remove the source of damage that might affect the next
player!

Seems quite clear to me that you draw the first damage first, but before doing that you trigger the fuel tank, thus preventing the need to draw further damage.
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Blake Thurston
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After posting the above, I noticed that you yourself, Clipper, made the same argument I did in the thread linked by cbs42. I also agree that the rules should be more consistent with the designer's "Official Word".

 
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Byron S
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Yeah, it seems like it should read:

Rules wrote:
Always draw and fully process Damage Cards one (mech) at a time
and in player order. It’s possible for one player’s damage to
remove the source of damage that might affect the next
player!
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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No problem, Blake. You can certainly be forgiven for not being aware of the official ruling. Thankfully, the devs are OK with constructive criticism, and thus we can work together to iron out these few minor wrinkles in the rules.

 
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