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Clash of Cultures» Forums » Rules

Subject: Event Timing - Great Prophet and Plague rss

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Jake Short
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Corvallis
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So here's a conundrum that came up in one of our recent Clash games.

Relevant Cards:

Great Prophet
Put this card on the table.
The first player to pay 1 Culture token on his turn may AAA both:
• Get a free "Spirituality" advance.
• "Increase City Size" with a Temple in a city of his choice without activating it (other restrictions/rules and resource costs still apply).
Then discard this card.

Plague
1. All players reduce the mood of one of their cities (or two if they have the "Roads" advance), and...
2. No cities can increase in size (for any reason) until the next Status Phase.


A Great Prophet was sitting on the the table awaiting use - I chose to pick it up. I spent my culture token and took Myths as my free Spirituality advance, which triggered an event draw. The event drawn was Plague. Am I allowed to complete the Great Prophet action? (in effect, should we have completed resolution of the Great Prophet event card before drawing the new one?) Or does the triggered event draw interrupt the Great prophet event and now a plague is in effect, preventing the temple from being built?

The Relevant rules section that we found didn't fully clear it up - page 13 under "Event Cards" - "When your Culture Level or Happiness Level reaches 3, 5 or 7, you draw an Event card and resolve it immediately." We couldn't find a section detailing how Great people are treated when their main effect is activated. (It's an event card- is it also being "resolved immediately" once you pay 1 culture token AAA?

Clearly if the Plague were in effect already, you couldn't build the temple by activating the great prophet. (both cards are pretty explicit, and if that wasn't enough, Christian said so). Really it comes down to - at what speed are the event cards processed? Do both parts of the great prophet action finish before the event is triggered? (The card says "...may AAA both:") Or are the bullet points significant, breaking up the action enough to allow the Plague to slip in between them?

We went back and forth a bit, decided we could really see it either way RAW, and then flipped a coin and moved on with our game.

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Humulus Lupulus
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My (unofficial) answer would be to complete the entire Great Prophet card prior to drawing and implementing the next event, thereby allowing the building of the temple. This seems both fair as well as simpler.
Good question though.
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George
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This is a tricky one looking at just Great Prophet. It seems like you could at least get the benefits in any order. But after reading through all the cards, I think each step of a Great Person card is handled in order, with events resolving immediately. You just had bad luck, as triggering an Event is always risky.

Main reasoning is the part of the rules you quoted that says events are always triggered immediately. It would get a little tricky if you "saved" the event until the second "action" of a Great Person card... for instance, the Great Warlord has you gain a Warfare advance and then take an entire Move action. Would be weird to save the event until after the move/battle.

Christian did comment that the first effect is active for the second effect. E.g. For Great Merchant you can get Trade Routes, and then collect from it. For Great Prophet, you could get Myths which would then enable building the Temple. For Great Warlord, you can get Steel Weapons (paying 2 ore) and then battle with it.

It would make sense to extend that to any event triggered by the free advance. That it completes and you gain any benefit/penalty before the next part. There are ways the event could be beneficial. E.g. Maybe you didn't have resources to build the temple, but the triggered event gave you 2 gold. Maybe an Epidemic weakens an opponent before your Great Warlord moves/battles.

That's my unofficial interpretation. Christian may very well come in and rule otherwise!
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Jake Short
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You two have done a good job of summing up the arguments.

It just seems odd to me, stopping partway through an event card to process a different event card that theoretically is handled at the same"speed". I can see it both ways though, for sure.

I'm hoping Christian will come along. I'm also honestly surprised I haven't seen this question on the geek yet, it seems significantly different from other event-timing questions, and there's several combos where it might be relevant.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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Inkpen
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I agree it's an odd interaction, but I think the track advance and event are immediate, even in the middle of another card or action.
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Jake Short
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George - Interesting that you're ruling that in fact the steps of the great person card are handled in order. We actually all agreed that they could be resolved in whatever order is chosen, and that if I'd already had myths I could've avoided the whole thing by building the temple first and then taking the advance.

Just further evidence for the X+1 interpretations that you'll end up with when X people read your well-written rules.
 
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George
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nvsbleman wrote:
George - Interesting that you're ruling that in fact the steps of the great person card are handled in order. We actually all agreed that they could be resolved in whatever order is chosen, and that if I'd already had myths I could've avoided the whole thing by building the temple first and then taking the advance.

Just further evidence for the X+1 interpretations that you'll end up with when X people read your well-written rules.


I wouldn't mind at all being wrong on that point. They are bullets after all, instead of numbered. None would be broken by doing the second bullet first. (Though Great Architect from the expansion does strongly make sense to do in order: Reveal all the Wonders, Get any one advance listed as a Requirement on one of the available Wonder cards.)
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Carsten Jorgensen
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Christian confirmed at the end of this thread, that they are done in order.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/876499/great-people-events

Nothing there about interupting the process for a new event if the first part of a great person triggers one, but that is also how I would play it.
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Christian Marcussen
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Hi.

The effects should be done in order (should have been numbers not bullets ideally). Any Event is triggered immediately.

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