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Cry Havoc» Forums » Variants

Subject: House rule altering Humans in 2 player games rss

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Curious Fu
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I can't seem to beat my friend at all when playing against Humans. He can't beat me either when I am Humans. This isn't fun for either of us.

SO we made a house rule...

1) Humans never score points for crystals in regions with trog tokens. (Thematically; because trogs are there, they are preventing the humans from taking advantage of the resources).

2) Humans can't build structures in regions with trog tokens. (Thematically; because the trogs will come and destroy them).

Games are much closer now when the humans are involved.

Don't bother asking if this is tested and how many times it was tested. Honestly, if it is not cross-over tested with a range of different players with different levels of game experience, for at least 100 times, the results of testing will neither be valid or reliable and there will unlikely be a significant difference between scores and perceived player enjoyment (totally subjective) in games played with this house rule and games played without it. This is just my variant which makes the game more fun for me. Try it if you have similar problems with 2 player games involving humans.
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Grant Rodiek
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If the game is more fun for you, I recommend 1000%.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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So... what would be the purpose of Scouting then?
 
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Graham Gass
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Wildhorn wrote:
So... what would be the purpose of Scouting then?


It looks like they recommend ignoring scoring crystals but not the control marker itself in regions with trog tokens. So with this variant you would still get points for those regions if you used the human default skill or enabled scoring.
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Jon Snow
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Have you looked at the new Strategy Guides for each faction here? They might give you some ideas!
 
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Garret Arcoraci
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I agree, in a two player game, it seems the humans are overpowered. I played numerous games against the humans as machines and pilgrims. We've played a few games where the humans do not receive points for crystals and they still win by a 15 to 20 point margin. So, we have limited ourselves to playing with the machines and pilgrims.
 
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Shoosh shoo
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I dont understand what makes people think that the humans are so overpowered. If its simply because of the scouting rule, cant you counter that easily with the pilgrims teleport ability? Scouting will let humans control a lot of regions early on but they wont have troops there. All it takes is to move one of yours into the territory and their control will be gone... Regardless of whether you win or lose that battle with a single troop.
 
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Garret Arcoraci
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It's not just scouting, they can build airbases and take control of most of the board by turn three.

Turn one - take control of territory without trog nest.
Turn Two - build an airbase, activate 2x and take control of two more territories. At this point, they have 3 territories, play the special ability card and enable scoring to get 6 VPs, plus the crystals. The Pilgrims or Machines may have two other territories under their control, three if things really go their way.
Turn three - The humans build another airbase and take three more territories.

In a two player game, if played correctly the humans might have to fight one battle against the trogs, the other factions have to fight the trogs and somehow keep the humans in check.

Basically, they only have to spend one card with three build icons and can take a territory without having to fight anyone. Other factions need to spend a minimum of two cards, move units and a card or two in battle, this makes the humans very powerful in a two player game.

I played the machines, completely wiped out the humans and my opponent
had every territory on the board save for the two I controlled by turn three. I spent all of turns 4 and 5 just fighting trogs to win three more territories. Without my opponent recruiting a single human he just used his cards against me to fight as the trogs. Basically, the trogs end up being the human's allies.

The next time we play, we're raising the cost of building and activating to plus 1 for the humans, to see if it helps to add more balance to the game.
 
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Curious Fu
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I agree that it is not just the skill cards. Besides, I would like to think that it does not matter which skill combinations or lack of combinations are in any game, that each faction is perfectly matched against each other and is competitive. If having certain skill cards as default for some factions makes it easier to be competitive, then that may be a viable variant for some players. However, I would like to think that any faction can win with their default skills or any that are included with the game.

In 2 to 3 player games, I find that sending a single human into adjacent regions to collect explore tokens and stir up Trogs to be a powerful strategy. They can then purposefully lose region control during the battle and effectively reinforce their borders with Trogs. This becomes even more fortified if the Humans can retreat Trogs into their border regions; green and orange Trog tokens combine to at least 5 and possibly 7 Trogs who will defend the border against invaders. They can attack Trogs on their border, fortify them and then cash in on the extra crystals created through battle with the airfield and still spread out. No one can touch them if they purposefully lose a couple of battles to Trogs on their borders.

That is the reason I played with this variant. It stops Humans from holing up behind a wall of Trogs. If they want crystals or to build, they have to clear out the Trogs first. They can still create a wall of Trogs on one front, but if they want to expand, then they need to move out and fight on another. This makes them more vulnerable and beatable in my experience.


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Alex Banks
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Another potential (but easily included) variant might be to make it so the game always goes to 5 turns? So ignore the rule about moving the token up if a points threshold is crossed. It sounds like they're trying to incorporate something like this into the first expansion, so it may not even remain a variant for very long!

Seeing how the other two races in 2-3 player games are both a bit slower paced before they can get mega-points (Pilgrims - crystals, Machines - final turn territory grab) this might help.
 
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Garret Arcoraci
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Have you tried playing it where the cost of the airfield is 3 and to activate it is 2? My rationale is that you should have to burn at least two cards to control a region.
 
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Garret Arcoraci
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Alexthebanks wrote:
Seeing how the other two races in 2-3 player games are both a bit slower paced before they can get mega-points (Pilgrims - crystals, Machines - final turn territory grab) this might help.


Some of the 2 player games we have played go 5 turns and it's still difficult to catch up with the humans. This might help in a 3 or 4 player game, though. I have not played with 4 players but based on the strategy guides it seems as though the humans might have a harder time with 3 other factions in the mix.
 
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Garret Arcoraci
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shooshoo wrote:
All it takes is to move one of yours into the territory and their control will be gone... Regardless of whether you win or lose that battle with a single troop.


Not if there is a Trog nest in the region.
 
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Neilan Naicker
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There's been an opinion I've seen a few times in various places that removing the scouting card "fixes" Human balance in two player. (Not my opinion, merely restating.)

Do you think that the Humans' strength in your games has been due to Scouting, curiousfu? Or not always?
 
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Curious Fu
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Darric wrote:
Do you think that the Humans' strength in your games has been due to Scouting, curiousfu? Or not always?


Yes, I have read some of those threads too. I was keen to see how each faction played and interacted on a base level without any of the extra skills, so I played many games with the default skill only. After quite a few plays with each faction (mostly at 2 players) I really felt like the Humans had a large advantage over the others. Then I experimented with the extra skill cards to see whether this made any difference in my games.

I felt scouting was a strong skill, but I also thought that even without it (perhaps especially without other factions extra skills), it was very difficult to beat the Humans.
 
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