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Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » General

Subject: POLL: Rate the Atlas expansion's heroes/wonders rss

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Well, it had to come: the rate the expansion heros & wonders. As I wrote in the other thread, my game group likes to have a nice collection of heroes to choose from when they build a hero/wonder. As we don't want them too weak nor too strong, we will take some core choices away and added a few Atlas heroes to always have an attractive set of 5 to pick from.

Happy voting! cool

Poll
How would you rate the heroes/wonders in the Atlas expansion?
  Weak Mediocre Good Strong Overpowered
Theseus
Midas
Croesus
Dido
Jason
Imhotep
Orpheus
Halicarnassus
Moses
Solomon
Archimedes
Odysseus
Ptolemy
Minotaur
Medusa
Medea
Pegasus
Achilles
Chiron
Ariane
Aeneas
Agamemnon
Helen
      2 answers
Poll created by Teowulff


C O L L E CT

Theseus (KS Exclusive)
Collect: You collect 1 extra Legendary Commodity for each Capital City you control.
Leader Bonus (1): 0/1/0
Very nice overall effect and minimal cultural leadership bonus. Especially good for empires that go the commodity way, like Carthage, Rome and Atlantis. Not as good as the Colossus of Rhodes, that let you pick a specific commodity.
NB Strange that it says “extra” as capitals don’t give legendary commodities to start with and not every player necessarily controls a legendary city.


Midas
Collect: Receive 2 Gold commodities from the reserve (if Midas in play, add 2 gold to the reserve pile).
Leader bonus (0)
Two extra free commodities each turn isn’t bad at all. Especially if you’re not Carthage or Egypt (as they already get gold from their starting territory), but even then.

B U I L D

Croesus
Build: 1x/round: build 1 control marker, city, or caravan for 1 coin; or, 1 market or temple
for 4 coins;
Leader Bonus (2): 1/1/0
Very useful permanent -2 discount. On top of that a trade and cultural leadership bonus.

Dido
Build: Take and store up to 2 unused commodities discarded by other players at the end of the build phase.
Leader Bonus (2): 1/1/0
Unless your opponents have no resources to discard, this is a very strong effect. May be better in 4-6 player games; more players mean more chance of extra commodities. A few leadership stats on top of that. What’s not to like?

Jason
Build: 1x/round, recruit a hero for 1 resource less.
Leader bonus (0)
Imhotep’s counterpart. Not so bad as it may speed up your hero/wonder recruitment rate. Even though you may generally only use it 1-3 times in a game and the bonus doesn't include wonders.

Imhotep
Build: Build wonders or the pyramids for 1 resource less
Leader bonus (0)
Jason’s counterpart. As there are far less wonders than heroes he’s a bit less useful. If you don’t build wonders or go for pyramids he’s actually quite useless. The only moment I can see him being very useful to recruit is just before you want to complete your pyramid or build that 5th wonder/hero (if any wonder is available at that moment).

Orpheus
Build: 1x/round may place one of your destroyed units on Orpheus tile; next round you may build that unit for free.
Leader Bonus: (1): 0/1/0
Seems to be applicable to fortresses, triremes and special units as well. May come in very handy during wartime. Small cultural bonus is a nice extra.

B A T T L E

Halicarnassus
Battle: Place the Halicarnassus token on any province you control; that province may not be attacked or harmed by card effects;
Leader Bonus (2): 0/2/0
Blatantly overpowered. Occupy a legendary city and you can basically leave it without defense? Can also makes the 4 capitals win condition a lot harder to accomplish for your opponents. And if that’s not nearly enough, +2 cultural leadership.

Moses
Battle: Protects the player’s provinces from pillage and conversion (but not occupation)
Leader bonus (0)
If you thought Halicarnassus was bad .. Moses is even more overpowered as he makes it so that you basically can’t lose any of your provinces or buildings once you occupied the Province. Your opponents must keep them occupied by multiple legions in order to have any benefit from their presence at all. While your legions can freely roam around and plunder your opponent's Provinces

Solomon
Battle: No opponent may attack you without first paying 1 coin per province to be attacked
Leader bonus (0)
Annoying hero but may come in handy, especially when playing a coin oriented empire. Not really good when playing with more peaceful, build oriented players.

Archimedes
Battle: When built, place the Greek Fire Trireme token; this trireme and all friendly triremes in the same sea space roll land dice in combat; it may still transport troops; it may be rebuilt
at cost: 3.
Leader Bonus (1): 0/0/1
Rather useless hero. Half a point extra for military bonus.

Odysseus
Battle: 1x/round may transport land units through any 1 sea space without a trireme.
Leader bonus (0)
May occasionally be handy but very situational. Hardly anything that buying an extra trireme can’t do. No leadership bonus either.

Ptolemy
Battle: When built, place 1 trireme in any sea space adjacent to your territory; you may always refuse sea battles;
Leader Bonus (1): 1/0/0
It may occasionally be handy if your triremes can’t be destroyed (so your invasions can’t be blocked that way) but generally it’s a very situational effect. +1 trade leadership isn’t all that overwhelming either.

Minotaur (KS Exclusive)
Build: When you recruit the Minotaur, each of your opponents must immediately remove one Legion from the map.
Leader Bonus (2): 1/1/1
Good hero with decent leader stat boost and a small but handy one-time effect when recruited. A bit in the same category as Perseus and Hamilcar.

Medusa
Battle: 1x/round may place Medusa marker on a territory shared by you and opponent(s); target opponent’s legions are petrified: until the end of this game turn, each petrified Unit can’t Move, Fight, occupy, be attacked, adjoin Provinces, nor be the target of any other game effect, nor place a Province 'At War', nor prevent an opponent from Pillaging or Occupy and must cancel its Conversion.
Medusa marker may not be placed on same land space on consecutive turns.
Leader Bonus (1): 0/0/1
“until the end of this game turn” (from FAQ) is not very handy if Medusa’s controller is the last one to move & battle. Although it sounds good, I don’t see that much use for Medusa unless you’re the military leader. Very situational.

Medea
Battle: 1x/round may place Medea marker on sea space shared by you and opponent(s); chosen opponent’s triremes are petrified (see: Medusa). You may not choose the same Sea twice in a row.
Leader Bonus (2): 1/0/1
Like Medusa, the effect is almost useless when you’re the last one to Move & Battle (or after your direct opponents). Handy to prevent an upcoming invasion for 1 turn (if you have a ship available). Bonus is a bit meagre but increases Medea‘s rating.

Pegasus
Battle: 1x/round may fly a group of legions 2 spaces, even over opponent-­‐occupied territories.
Leader bonus (0)
Renders your opponent’s frontline defenses almost useless as you can fly across. Still a situational thing, though, that may in come handy a few times per game.

Achilles
Battle: When purchased, place the Myrmidons token; token acts as legion which rolls two dice and cancels opponent fortress’ hit negation. May be rebuilt at cost: 6. Myrmidons do not count for Military leadership nor benefit from Legion bonuses.
Leader bonus (0)
Nice vanguard troops that can be devastating when invading a province with a fortress, doing 2d+5 damage - otherwise just a legion that throws 2 dice (without bonusses).
Compared to 2 legions the Myrmidons have 1 less hit point but are stronger when facing fortresses. I’d think mostly useful when you go very strong on the military and you’ve run out of legion tokens or when you go for the 4-city win.
Downsides: still one hit point, expensive to replace when things go wrong and doesn’t count towards your military track.


Chiron
Battle: When purchased, place the Centaurs token; this token acts as legion but destroys 1 opponent Legion prior to each battle. May be rebuilt at cost: 6.
Centaurs do not effect military leadership track, nor benefit from Legion bonuses.
Leader bonus (0)
More defensive than Myrmidons as the Centaurs effectively take away one of your opponent’s dice. More unconditionally useful than Myrmidons. They actually work a bit like a mobile fortress that deals 1d+5 damage.
Roughly said, legions would be (attack/defense) 1/1, fortresses 1/2, centaurs 2/2 and Myrmidons 2/1 (3/1 vs fortresses).


Ariane (KS Exclusive)
Battle: After your opponent rolls his Battle Dice, you may decide to flee with all of your Legions and other mobile land units. Both player’s Battle Dice results are ignored.
* If you are the attacker, your units must flee to an adjacent or adjoining Province you control.
* If you are the defender, your units must flee to an adjacent or adjoining Province you control; fortress fight as normal (from FAQ).
Leader Bonus (1): 0/1/0
Wow. Retreat your troops after each bad throw instead of them being destroyed? Or when you are attacked by surprise so you can regroup and strike back with your full army? And not just 1x/turn?
Very strong, especially against Rome.


Aeneas
Battle: When involved in land battle, negate 1 opponent hit against your legions.
Leader bonus (0)
Good. Only protective for your legions, though, otherwise it would have been Nebuchadnezzar’s (+5 to your dice throw) defensive counterpart (as Aeneas’ skill basically means -5 to your opponent’s dice throw).

Agamemnon
Battle: When your legions pillage a market or temple, it is immediately rebuilt in your territory if there is an empty space available.
Leader Bonus (2): 0/1/1
Together with the leadership bonusses, Agamemnon’s skill may come in handy sometimes and save you some resources. Nice if you also have Hamilcar and go on a pillaging spree.

O T H E R

Helen
Leadership: Leader Bonus (4): 0/0/4
So you want that military leadership? You’ll even recruit her simply because you don’t want others to get her.

----

Ajax, Adonis & Minos ar eonly applicable to the legendary city scenario's and can not be used in a "normal" game.

 
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