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Mac Mcleod
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Even after the deputy prosecutor who originally prosecuted cooper and the parole board both recommended a pardon.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/21/pence...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/0...

http://www.ibtimes.com/who-keith-cooper-mike-pence-refuses-p...



Mike Pence is a really despicable person.


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Robert Wesley
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hmmmm, several 'prior mentions' by 'moi' weeks ago, and FINALLY it garnered "attentions", but, at least you now see WHOM that is.
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Derry Salewski
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I guess I'm too lazy to read the stories but like . . . if the courts say he's not guilty why is he in jail?
 
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Robert Wesley
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shake He's requesting the 'pardon' in order to REMOVE the erroneous "felony conviction" that no doubt prevented HIM with "Voting".
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scifiantihero wrote:
I guess I'm too lazy to read the stories but like . . . if the courts say he's not guilty why is he in jail?


Good lord, don't comment if you're too lazy to read.
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Robert Wesley
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she2 wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
I guess I'm too lazy to read the stories but like . . . if the courts say he's not guilty why is he in jail?


Good lord, don't comment if you're too lazy to read.
Well, the WORLD needed "illiterate well diggers" too! robot
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maxo-texas wrote:

Mike Pence is a really despicable person.




Ok I have read the articles and I cannot concur that Pence is despicable.

To my understanding seeking a Pardon while being innocent really is the wrong way to go because it DOESN'T Vacate a felony conviction nor expunge it from the records. Both things this man wants and NEEDS to have done IF he wants it to stop affecting his WORK opportunities.

A Pardon AFTER a conviction basically says yeah even though the person was found guilty we think they have changed or there is some other reason to be lenient or merciful with them. Getting a Pardon when innocent is usually a LAST DITCH pitch to get somebody out of JAIL because for some reason their conviction is going to STAND even though it was erroneous.

Only a pardon BEFORE a conviction (aka a preemptive one) can keep a felony from being on the record at all.

This guy has been out of jail for 10 years already because they did realize he was wrongly convicted. But to get that conviction off the record a process has to be gone through that only the courts CAN do.

In the articles they state his co-deffendant has already successfully gone through the process that genuinely exonerated and expunged his record.

I do understand the reasons this seems daunting and scary to the man in question because of the deal he agreed to to get let out sooner. And if I were Pence I would go ahead and let him have what he wanted even though legally it ISN'T the best way to go.

But Pence and his team are correct that it ISN'T the best way for the man to go. The Pardon I think will actually work AGAINST what the man genuinely wants to happen. Because again... Pardons are usually for the guilty but repentant, not the innocent. Pardons for the innocent (which do occasionally happen) are a band-aid over a travesty of justice that cannot be fixed for some complex mess of reasons, rather then the genuine REDRESS of a clear injustice which this man is rightfully entitled to.





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Pontifex Maximus
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maxo-texas wrote:
Even after the deputy prosecutor who originally prosecuted cooper and the parole board both recommended a pardon.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/21/pence...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/10/0...

http://www.ibtimes.com/who-keith-cooper-mike-pence-refuses-p...



Mike Pence is a really despicable person.




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“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!


Matthew 23:23

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Meerkat wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

Mike Pence is a really despicable person.




Ok I have read the articles and I cannot concur that Pence is despicable.

To my understanding seeking a Pardon while being innocent really is the wrong way to go because it DOESN'T Vacate a felony conviction nor expunge it from the records. Both things this man wants and NEEDS to have done IF he wants it to stop affecting his WORK opportunities.

A Pardon AFTER a conviction basically says yeah even though the person was found guilty we think they have changed or there is some other reason to be lenient or merciful with them. Getting a Pardon when innocent is usually a LAST DITCH pitch to get somebody out of JAIL because for some reason their conviction is going to STAND even though it was erroneous.

Only a pardon BEFORE a conviction (aka a preemptive one) can keep a felony from being on the record at all.

This guy has been out of jail for 10 years already because they did realize he was wrongly convicted. But to get that conviction off the record a process has to be gone through that only the courts CAN do.

In the articles they state his co-deffendant has already successfully gone through the process that genuinely exonerated and expunged his record.

I do understand the reasons this seems daunting and scary to the man in question because of the deal he agreed to to get let out sooner. And if I were Pence I would go ahead and let him have what he wanted even though legally it ISN'T the best way to go.

But Pence and his team are correct that it ISN'T the best way for the man to go. The Pardon I think will actually work AGAINST what the man genuinely wants to happen. Because again... Pardons are usually for the guilty but repentant, not the innocent. Pardons for the innocent (which do occasionally happen) are a band-aid over a travesty of justice that cannot be fixed for some complex mess of reasons, rather then the genuine REDRESS of a clear injustice which this man is rightfully entitled to.







Well, that's only part of the story. More at the link below. Essentially, the only reason the defendant is now a free man is that he agreed to a sentence reduction to time served, after it became apparent that he was likely innocent. He did that in exchange for dropping his petition for a retrial. Several sources believe that deal may cut off his ability to get redress through the court system. At the very least it's an uphill battle for him. I think he just wants Pence to pardon him at this point.

I think Pence is taking his position for political expediency, not because he's trying to do the right thing here.

In short, I disagree with you that Pence isn't despicable.

Quote:
On December 6, 2005 the Indiana Court of Appeals reversed Platt’s ruling, and vacated Parish’s convictions and ordered his retrial based on ineffective assistance of counsel by his trial lawyer. The Court ruled that because Parish’s lawyer failed to “conduct any meaningful pretrial investigation” that would have discovered evidence the shooting occurred outside the apartment and Parish (and Cooper) weren’t present, Parish was unable to undermine the trial testimony that Parish (and Cooper) where involved in a robbery and shooting in the apartment that didn’t occur. The Court also ruled that Doty failed to object to an erroneous jury instruction.

In July 2006 Parish was released on bond pending his retrial.
On December 1, 2006, Elkhart Superior Court Judge Evan Roberts granted the prosecution’s motion to dismiss all charges against Parish.
Cooper filed a petition for a new trial based on the evidence discovered during Parish’s post-conviction proceedings. Cooper was released on April 27, 2006 after he accepted the offer of the Elkhart County DA for his sentence to be modified to time served in exchange for agreeing to drop his post-conviction petition.

In 2009 Cooper filed an application for an executive pardon that included Kershner’s recantation of identifying Cooper and Parish as his assailants: “It would be a blessing from God for an innocent man to get off, and I am so sorry for falsely accusing you. I swear to God I really thought you were the one. Please forgive me and God forgive me. I was wrong.” (Man asks for pardon after name is cleared, The Elkhart Truth, March 29, 2009) Governor Mitch Daniels did not grant Cooper a pardon. After a hearing in February 2014, the Indiana Parole Board unanimously recommended Cooper’s pardon.

Indiana Deputy Public Defender William D. Polansky wrote a “To Whom It May Concern” letter on January 22, 2016 that expressed his opinion Cooper was barred from pursuing his exoneration in a post-conviction petition because of his sentence modification deal in 2006. However, Polansky’s letter was flawed because it did not present any evidence of a judicial order that the withdrawl of Cooper’s petition in 2006 was with prejudice. Since it wasn’t dismissed with prejudice, Cooper could file a petition to overturn his conviction that includes all the evidence of his innocence, including Kershner’s recantation in 2009.

On September 20, 2016, Mark Ahearn, General Counsel for Governor Pence, informed Cooper in a letter that his pardon request couldn’t be processed until he exhausted his judicial remedies to overturn his conviction. Ahearn stated, “…we need to be certain the judicial process is complete and has been given every opportunity to address any error that may have occurred.”

On October 3, 2016 Cooper’s lawyers filed a petition in the Elkhart County Superior Court requesting that his conviction be vacated and a new trial granted. If Cooper’s petition is granted, it would then be up to the DA’s office to either pursue a retrial, or request the dismissal of his charges. If Cooper’s petition is unsuccessful, then Gov. Pence, or his predecessor, would then consider his pardon.


http://justicedenied.org/wordpress/archives/3333



Quote:

And attorneys say it's not clear how much recourse Cooper would have in the court system because of a deal he made a decade ago.

In 2005, Cooper was offered a sentence modification if he would withdraw his petition for post-conviction relief, meaning he could walk out of jail immediately but remain a convicted felon. The deal was proposed as the evidence that led to his conviction began falling apart.

In Tuesday's letter, General Counsel Mark Ahearn questioned whether Cooper could still have his conviction vacated in court by filing another petition. He noted it is unclear in court records whether the deal Cooper struck precludes him from filing such a request.


"I think Mr. Cooper is going to have an uphill battle to vacate his conviction because of the earlier agreement," said Fran Watson, professor at the Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law in Indianapolis. "That said, uphill battles can be won."


Still, Watson said, the easiest and most efficient path to exoneration is through the governor's office. And there is nothing that requires the governor to defer to the judicial system in such cases.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/21/pence...




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J
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Pence is despicable for this and many more things. He's truly a piece of shit.
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Meerkat wrote:
Ok I have read the articles and I cannot concur that Pence is despicable.

To my understanding seeking a Pardon while being innocent really is the wrong way to go because it DOESN'T Vacate a felony conviction nor expunge it from the records. Both things this man wants and NEEDS to have done IF he wants it to stop affecting his WORK opportunities.

The article says the exact opposite.

Quote:
For more than four years, Cooper has doggedly pursued exoneration. He has pinned his hopes on a pardon from Pence that would erase a felony conviction that hangs over his head and pave the way to better employment.

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damiangerous wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
Ok I have read the articles and I cannot concur that Pence is despicable.

To my understanding seeking a Pardon while being innocent really is the wrong way to go because it DOESN'T Vacate a felony conviction nor expunge it from the records. Both things this man wants and NEEDS to have done IF he wants it to stop affecting his WORK opportunities.

The article says the exact opposite.

Quote:
For more than four years, Cooper has doggedly pursued exoneration. He has pinned his hopes on a pardon from Pence that would erase a felony conviction that hangs over his head and pave the way to better employment.



The only thing that it cuts off (I think) is his ability to sue the state of Indiana. He's very unlikely to be granted the ability to pursue Lynette's ideal option in any case given the scenario above. Given all that, Pence's legal office is just looking for excuses to unload it on the next Governor so that Pence doesn't have to deal with questions about it right now.
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Mac Mcleod
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To mind in cases like this, a pardon should be automatic.

If we have proven the person is innocent, they should be compensated for time spent in prison and their record should be erased. More- when you look them up there should be a record that says, "This man was proven innocent after being incorrectly found guilty."
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rekinom
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maxo-texas wrote:
To mind in cases like this, a pardon should be automatic.

If we have proven the person is innocent, they should be compensated for time spent in prison and their record should be erased. More- when you look them up there should be a record that says, "This man was proven innocent after being incorrectly found guilty."


A pardon implies forgiving while an expungement implies forgetting. This guy did nothing wrong, so he does not need forgiveness. He does need to have his criminal record forgotten by the state.

That said, I did find this...

Quote:
The Indiana Supreme Court has held that pardon essentially wipes out both the punishment prescribed for the offense and the guilt of the offender. Kelley v. State, 185 N.E. 453, 458-59 (Ind. 1933). Based on the Supreme Court’s holding in Kelley, the Indiana Court of Appeals has found that a pardon provides automatic grounds for judicial expungement. See State v. Bergman, 558 N.E.2d 1111 (Ind. Ct. App. 1990).
http://ccresourcecenter.org/state-restoration-profiles/india...

So I think Pence should pardon the guy, but only as a means to trigger expunging the record.

I don't think Pence's inaction is any more despicable than whatever prosecutor or judge offered this deal in the first place.
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Mac Mcleod
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rekinom wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
To mind in cases like this, a pardon should be automatic.

If we have proven the person is innocent, they should be compensated for time spent in prison and their record should be erased. More- when you look them up there should be a record that says, "This man was proven innocent after being incorrectly found guilty."


A pardon implies forgiving while an expungement implies forgetting. This guy did nothing wrong, so he does not need forgiveness. He does need to have his criminal record forgotten by the state.

That said, I did find this...

Quote:
The Indiana Supreme Court has held that pardon essentially wipes out both the punishment prescribed for the offense and the guilt of the offender. Kelley v. State, 185 N.E. 453, 458-59 (Ind. 1933). Based on the Supreme Court’s holding in Kelley, the Indiana Court of Appeals has found that a pardon provides automatic grounds for judicial expungement. See State v. Bergman, 558 N.E.2d 1111 (Ind. Ct. App. 1990).
http://ccresourcecenter.org/state-restoration-profiles/india...

So I think Pence should pardon the guy, but only as a means to trigger expunging the record.

I don't think Pence's inaction is any more despicable than whatever prosecutor or judge offered this deal in the first place.


I agree with you. If it was not the the most they could do legally then they are also despicable. But pence *knows* the guy is unquestionably innocent and won't sign a fuckin pardon. So yes, all of them may be despicable but pence is definately despicable.
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Jage
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maxo-texas wrote:
To mind in cases like this, a pardon should be automatic.

If we have proven the person is innocent, they should be compensated for time spent in prison and their record should be erased. More- when you look them up there should be a record that says, "This man was proven innocent after being incorrectly found guilty."



He wasn't proven innocent. He was offered a new trial 10 years ago, and took a deal that left the conviction intact instead.

If a court of law finds him innocent, there would be no need for a pardon.
 
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Quote:
“A pardon based on innocence presents a very different set of circumstances to a governor. It requires the governor to determine that the trial court, and any appellate court which weighed the available evidence were wrong,” general counsel Mark Ahearn wrote. “A pardon based on innocence requires a governor to substitute his judgment for that of the judicial branch.”

A spokeswoman for Pence said the governor’s office is pleased with Cooper’s decision to turn to the courts first. The Elkhart County prosecutor’s office has until Nov. 1 to respond to Cooper’s request for a new trial. Elkhart County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Vicki Becker, who’s handling Cooper’s case, didn’t return a call from The Washington Post on Wednesday.


Seems reasonable to me, he wants to wait until all judicial avenues are expended before doing the extraordinary (never been done before) use of the pardon to proclaim innocence above the ruling of the courts.
 
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In federal law, a pardon carries an "imputation of guilt," and accepting a pardon is "an admission of guilt." For this reason, it is possible for people to reject pardons when they claim their innocence.

Burdick v. United States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States
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Pence And Trump Share Similar Racial Biases When It Comes To African Americans Unjustly Indicted By The Court System


Meerkat wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Mike Pence is a really despicable person.

Ok I have read the articles and I cannot concur that Pence is despicable.

To my understanding seeking a Pardon while being innocent really is the wrong way to go because it DOESN'T Vacate a felony conviction nor expunge it from the records. Both things this man wants and NEEDS to have done IF he wants it to stop affecting his WORK opportunities.

A Pardon AFTER a conviction basically says yeah even though the person was found guilty we think they have changed or there is some other reason to be lenient or merciful with them. Getting a Pardon when innocent is usually a LAST DITCH pitch to get somebody out of JAIL because for some reason their conviction is going to STAND even though it was erroneous.

Only a pardon BEFORE a conviction (aka a preemptive one) can keep a felony from being on the record at all.

This guy has been out of jail for 10 years already because they did realize he was wrongly convicted. But to get that conviction off the record a process has to be gone through that only the courts CAN do.

In the articles they state his co-defendant has already successfully gone through the process that genuinely exonerated and expunged his record.

I do understand the reasons this seems daunting and scary to the man in question because of the deal he agreed to to get let out sooner. And if I were Pence I would go ahead and let him have what he wanted even though legally it ISN'T the best way to go.

But Pence and his team are correct that it ISN'T the best way for the man to go. The Pardon I think will actually work AGAINST what the man genuinely wants to happen. Because again... Pardons are usually for the guilty but repentant, not the innocent. Pardons for the innocent (which do occasionally happen) are a band-aid over a travesty of justice that cannot be fixed for some complex mess of reasons, rather then the genuine REDRESS of a clear injustice which this man is rightfully entitled to.

What a vaingloriously disingenuous bit of apologism for that sorry Dominionist Indiana Republican governor!

Oh, but wait: I seemed to have somehow overlooked the fact that this worngheaded defense of Pence did indeed come from the defender of his loathesome Dominionist counterparts, namely, Tony Perkins and the Family Research Council, James Dobson and Focus On The Family, and Bryan Fischer and the American Family Association among others.

Pence's wrongheaded racism, obstinate dissembling, and prevaricating doubletalk are just as egregious -- if not moreso -- than that of his counterpart, Donald J. Trump.


> Excerpts from the October 12, 2016 Washington Post opinion column by Yuself Salaam, one of the Central Park Five, entitled:

I’m One Of The Central Park Five, And Donald Trump Won’t Leave Me Alone
The Republican Candidate's Antics Have Filled Me With Fear






For 27 years, I’ve been in Donald Trump’s crosshairs.

I’m a member of the Central Park Five, a group of teenagers wrongfully imprisoned after the brutal sexual assault of a jogger in Central Park in 1989. The victim, a 28-year-old investment banker named Trisha Meili, was bludgeoned with a rock, tied up, raped, and left for dead. She was discovered hours later.

When we were arrested, the police deprived us of food, drink, and sleep for more than 24 hours. Under duress, we falsely confessed. Though we were innocent, we spent our formative years in prison, branded as rapists.



Yusef Salaam, one of the five black and latino teens convicted and later exonerated of the brutal rape of a New York jogger in 1989, believes Donald Trump is unfit for the presidency. In the photo above, defendant Yusef Salaam walking into the courthouse flanked by police officers.

During our trial, it seemed like every New Yorker had an opinion. But no one took it further than Trump. He called for blood in the most public way possible. Trump used his money to take out full-page ads in all of the city’s major newspapers, urging the reinstatement of the death penalty in New York. I don’t know why the future Republican nominee bought those ads, but it seems part and parcel with his racist attitudes.




At the time, our families tried to shield us from what was going on in the media, but we still found out about Trump’s ads. My initial thought was, “Who is this guy?” I was terrified that I might be executed for a crime I didn’t commit.



Matias Reyes is escorted out of 20th precinct after being charged with murder and rape.

Another man, Matias Reyes, eventually confessed to the rape and was definitively linked to the crime through DNA.



Matias Reyes

Because of this, we were exonerated in 2002. New York City paid us $41,000,000.00 in 2014 for our false imprisonment. (As is customary in such settlements, the city did not admit liability.)






Nonetheless, Trump has never apologized for calling for our deaths. In fact, he’s somehow still convinced that we belong in prison. When the Republican nominee was recently asked about the Central Park Five, he said, “They admitted they were guilty.”

In a statement to CNN, Trump wrote: “The police doing the original investigation say they were guilty. The fact that that case was settled with so much evidence against them is outrageous. And the woman, so badly injured, will never be the same.”

(Meili, for her part, told CNN in 2003: “I guess there are lots of theories out there, but I just don’t know.... I’ve had to come to peace with it by saying: ‘You know what? I’m just not going to know.’ ”)

It’s further proof of Trump’s bias, racism, and inability to admit that he’s wrong.

When I heard Trump’s latest proclamation, it was the worst feeling in the world. I couldn’t breathe. Starting when I was 15, my life was not my own. For years, I had no control over what happened to me. Being in the spotlight makes me wary and self-conscious again. I am overwhelmed with fear that an overzealous Trump supporter might take matters into his or her hands.

Doing something simple like picking up dinner for the family or going to the aquarium now fills me with dread. I’m constantly looking over my shoulder, keeping an eye out for people who stare too long. Like a soldier always on high alert, I can never enjoy myself fully, with all the adrenaline that comes with that. It’s a scary feeling.

[At one time, Donald Trump was my hero -- until I tried to sell talking Trump novelty pens.]

In some ways, I feel like I’m on trial all over again. I know what it is to be a young black man without a voice — like Trayvon Martin and Mike Brown, who were killed and then crucified in the press. Even though the Central Park Five were found innocent by a court of law, we are still guilty in the eyes of many. That brings a certain kind of stress.






I realize, too, that I’m not the only victim. Trump has smeared dozens of people, with no regard for the truth. And he has backed a “law and order” system (including the “stop and frisk” policy found to be unconstitutional) that would systematically target minorities, sending a collective chill down the spines of those of us who have been the victims of such “law and order.”

Black people across America know that because of the color of our skin, we are guilty before proven innocent. As a result, sometimes we lose the best years of our lives. Sometimes we lose our actual lives. We must not let this man ascend to the highest office in the land — a man who has proved that he lets neither facts nor humanity lead his steps.






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Josh
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jageroxorz wrote:
Quote:
“A pardon based on innocence presents a very different set of circumstances to a governor. It requires the governor to determine that the trial court, and any appellate court which weighed the available evidence were wrong,” general counsel Mark Ahearn wrote. “A pardon based on innocence requires a governor to substitute his judgment for that of the judicial branch.”

A spokeswoman for Pence said the governor’s office is pleased with Cooper’s decision to turn to the courts first. The Elkhart County prosecutor’s office has until Nov. 1 to respond to Cooper’s request for a new trial. Elkhart County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Vicki Becker, who’s handling Cooper’s case, didn’t return a call from The Washington Post on Wednesday.


Seems reasonable to me, he wants to wait until all judicial avenues are expended before doing the extraordinary (never been done before) use of the pardon to proclaim innocence above the ruling of the courts.


He just felt like waiting 2 years to get back to the dude.
 
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Actually, would Burdick v. United States apply to state pardons as well as federal ones? According to the Supreme Court, it is necessary to admit guilt to accept a pardon. I am not a Constitutional lawyer, so please correct me if there have any decisions which do not state this.
 
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Kumitedad wrote:

Quote:
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!


Matthew 23:23



I'm not sure what the addition of a bolded quote from scripture adds or impacts the discussion in any way. Can you please elaborate?
 
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who could have possibly known before his nomination that trump has a disgusting stance on the central park five - yet another hit piece by the corrupt media
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I still don't see how anyone can be so intellectually dishonest to think the Death Penalty is anything but a travesty in our flawed judicial system. I don't even have hope there can be a human run system that would be able to judge who lives and who dies fairly.

As for Pence, I'm sure Jesus sheds a tear whenever one of these Governors claims to try to be Christ-like and follow his teachings.
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Mac Mcleod
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The Matthew quote...

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
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