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Duel of Ages II» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement with Speed Bonus and Mount rss

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David desJardins
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Suppose I have +1 Speed from a Labyrinth, and I have a Mount that replaces my natural speed of 6 with a speed of 7. Are these cumulative? Do I get to move 8?
 
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Brett Murrell
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All Speed bonuses and penalties apply when using a Transport (a Mount or Vehicle). This includes Experience Markers, Labyrinths bonuses, the Nimsea Speed penalty, etc. However, if your character's personal Speed rating is increased through leveling up, that is not considered a bonus but a change to your personal rating. A Mount would not gain that increase.
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David desJardins
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That's different than what I guessed. Experience, for example, modifies the character's "rating". I would have thought that the character's Speed Rating is the intrinsic number, while a Mount will change the movement allowance, but not the rating.

Thanks for the clarification. Good item for the FAQ.
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David Williams
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SpitfireIXA wrote:
All Speed bonuses and penalties apply when using a Transport (a Mount or Vehicle). This includes Experience Markers, Labyrinths bonuses, the Nimsea Speed penalty, etc. However, if your character's personal Speed rating is increased through leveling up, that is not considered a bonus but a change to your personal rating. A Mount would not gain that increase.

Hmm. Something does't seem right about this, but it's your game. This is a must add for the living rules.
 
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David desJardins
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What about the Pathfinder's Badge with a Mount? Is it correct that the Pathfinder's Badge is like leveling up (or Paradox's effect) so it only changes the character's personal stats. So, if I'm using a Mount to replace my natural Speed rating, then the Pathfinder's Badge effect is irrelevant?

(My Invisible Man drew the Pathfinder's Badge as a starting card. )
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Brett Murrell
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Yeah we just had Thotus draw the Sage's Badge and turn into a kindergartener on us. Being dishonorable is fine until it very much isn't.

You're correct on the badge. The Pathfinder Badge does not apply to the Mount because it would need to be based on the Mount's Honor, and a Mount does not have Honor.

As further explanation, the +1 Transport speed for Experience is appropriate because it is a veteran bonus, not some physical augmentation. Your calves don't get thicker. You just know how to get from point A to B faster, and that applies whether on foot or mounted.
 
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David desJardins
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But +1 from Experience increases the Power of your natural melee attack, but not the Power if you attack with a weapon, right? So in that case it's not in addition to the equipment.

Does +1 from Experience increase the Power of natural ranged attacks, for characters that have them? I would assume not that either.
 
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Brett Murrell
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No, you are correct, Experience does not affect either of those. A few sentences on Experience markers would allow for that, but no for version 2.
 
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David desJardins
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You meant to write "does NOT affect either of those"?
 
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David desJardins
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I usually agree with your rulings and see the internal logic, but I kind of think you should reconsider your ruling on Mounts. It seems inconsistent to me that Experience makes you find a better path and move faster with your Mount, but it doesn't help you find chinks in armor and hit better with your Weapon. I would have just said that Experience changes your character's rating, so if something else is replacing your rating for any purpose (such as movement) then the value of the something else is unchanged.
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Brett Murrell
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Experience does affect your ability to hit better with a weapon through the Hit, but your extended point is true. The issue with Mounts is that they affect Speed/movement in general. If the (simple) ruling was that nothing effects their Speed value, then it causes many inconsistencies. For example, Nimsea:

"Enemies and allies within 2 aura at start of movement suffer -2 Speed."

Or Xecttyl:

"Enemies that begin their move within 4 aura suffer -1 Speed that turn."

The play assumption (an assumption that needed to be explained better under the Transport rules) is that a Transport that gives a set Speed is giving that Speed to the character. He owns it that turn. If not -- if Experience would not apply to the Transport being used by a character -- then Xecttyl and Nimsea would also not apply. That would be thematically damaging. A hero on a horse would not realistically be immune to Xecttyl's worker swarms or Nimsea's tripping vines.

These are the sentences then needed in the Transport's section:

"All character movement specials and Speed modifiers apply when using a Transport, including Experience. A character using a Transport cannot use any natural flight ability unless the Transport allows flight. The Transport may apply other restrictions, such as inability to enter Building spaces."

In the Experience section, this would help but is not necessary:

"The +1 to Speed applies when using Transports."

 
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David desJardins
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SpitfireIXA wrote:
If the (simple) ruling was that nothing effects their Speed value, then it causes many inconsistencies.


That's not my suggestion. My suggestion was that Experience changes the printed Speed rating of the character, not the effective movement rate. This seems to be the rule in all other cases: the effect of Experience is the same as increasing the printed character rating by 1 (after modifications by other effects such as Paradox or Cloning Pods). Your rule for Mounts is the only exception to that, as far as I can think of.
 
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Brett Murrell
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This also maintains the highest level of special ability consistency while staying as simple as possible (Simple being in terms of either specials and modifiers apply to Transports, or they don't).

-- Most lessened cost through certain terrain should thematically continue to apply with a Transport.

-- Exotic movement specials such as Catspaw, Iron Pole, Arkin, Greymede, Nimsea, and Xecttyl should apply.

-- The Tanglefoot and Caltrops treasure cards should apply.

-- The Speed bonus received from Experience and Labyrinth paths should apply.

The only ones that don't fall into this are Flight, and two odd birds that set the character's Speed at a specific value, and therefore are not meaningful to the Transport (Brad and the Pathfinder Badge). In these cases, the normal rules apply -- the character has the choice of using his set value and not the Transport, or of using the Transport.
 
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Brett Murrell
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DaviddesJ wrote:
SpitfireIXA wrote:
If the (simple) ruling was that nothing effects their Speed value, then it causes many inconsistencies.


That's not my suggestion. My suggestion was that Experience changes the printed Speed rating of the character, not the effective movement rate. This seems to be the rule in all other cases: the effect of Experience is the same as increasing the printed character rating by 1 (after modifications by other effects such as Paradox or Cloning Pods). Your rule for Mounts is the only exception to that, as far as I can think of.


I understand your line of reasoning there. But the changing of the printed value is intended as a permanent effect. Experience is only a momentary boost, so the difference between leveling up and other temporary effects gets blurred (this is important for sometime in the future).
 
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David desJardins
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Thanks for considering. I'll defer to your intention but please add this to the next FAQ/update. Your addition to the Transport rules seems clear and sufficient.
 
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