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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Sharing informations between players during a game. rss

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tom tom
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Hello all.


I've got a question about this situation:
2 players are facing each other in a tournament.
One asks about the green manoeuvres on the dial of one of his opponent's ships.
Can the latter refuse to answer?


Bonus question: Is it allowed to use help sheets with all ships manoeuvres?
I think this has been debated not so long ago and I can't remember the outcome.


Thanks in advance for the help.


t.
 
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Guido Gloor
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1. I guess they can refuse to answer, but they're being a dick, and the asking player is free to ask somebody else including the TO, who will be annoyed but almost certainly will answer. Which ships have what maneuvers is open information by means of being official rule documents, per the tournament regulations that say that "Official rule documents include all rules documents and inserts available [for X-Wing]".

2. Technically, the FAQ says that "Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round." - so technically, only the package slips themselves would be legal, and no third-party help sheets. But "any portion thereof" is also legal, so I guess "a digital and slightly different copy thereof with exactly the same informational content" is probably a grey area. Common sense dictates that nobody should intervene, but people are sometimes, well, dicks.

Edit: Here's the legalese:

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J Chav
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The new FAQ has a section about knowledge and when you can lie or not. I believe this falls under the open knowledge of what a dial has and the other player must tell the truth.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I had a neighboring player once ask his opponent if his ship's dial had X maneuver. The opponent said, "Yes, but that's the last information I'll give you about my ships." This was I think 2 years ago, and it still bugs me to this day. As haslo suggested, what a dick! If everyone did that kind of play, all it would do is make everyone start bringing all their inserts and waste more time. It's silly to hide any information in X-Wing...

-shnar
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tom tom
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Well thanks a lot guys, I wasn't sure.

Now if I may ask another question while I'm here: It seems to me that at the end of a tournament, in case of ties in tournament points, the first tie-breaker is the face-to-face result, if any, not the MOV.
Is it still the case?

I'm asking because I flattened the guy who wouldn't let me know about his dial, but he ended up 2nd and me 3rd at a local tournament yesterday due to a slight MOV advantage, but shouldn't my victory against him be taken in account?

According to April 2016 tourney rules I should have finished 2nd but I wonder if they've been changed since...
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/a7/9c...
 
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Richard Dickson
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I believe FFG clarified somewhere that printed summary sheets of ship maneuvers were legal, as they couldn't reasonably expect people to have saved all the package inserts for the better part of four years on the off chance they'd be required one day.
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Guido Gloor
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tomfromparis wrote:
Now if I may ask another question while I'm here: It seems to me that at the end of a tournament, in case of ties in tournament points, the first tie-breaker is the face-to-face result, if any, not the MOV.
Is it still the case?

I don't have all versions archived, but the tournament regulations from 2016-07-12 just like the most recent ones from 2016-10-17 had as tie breakers:

1) MoV
2) Strength of Schedule
3) Random

You'll always find the most recent tournament regulations linked on FFG's X-Wing page (currently under "Tournament Resources").
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tom tom
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All right, thanks a lot guys!
 
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DailyRich wrote:
I believe FFG clarified somewhere that printed summary sheets of ship maneuvers were legal, as they couldn't reasonably expect people to have saved all the package inserts for the better part of four years on the off chance they'd be required one day.


That's true as long as the sheets ONLY contain information directly included in FFG material (rules and game components). So a sheet with the maneuvers is ok, but a sheet with a listing of opening maneuvers is not.
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Grant Whitesell

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I am more than happy to hand over my ship's dial between turns, even in a tournament. The capabilities of my ships at any given moment are open information through cards. Their maneuvering ability should be no different.

FFS, it's not a 'who-memorizes-the-maneuver-sheet-better' game. That's some Z-grade dick behavior.
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Derry Salewski
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GrantZilla1979 wrote:
I am more than happy to hand over my ship's dial between turns, even in a tournament. The capabilities of my ships at any given moment are open information through cards. Their maneuvering ability should be no different.

FFS, it's not a 'who-memorizes-the-maneuver-sheet-better' game. That's some Z-grade dick behavior.


At some point isn't your opponent wasting time if they haven't printed out a sheet of maneuvers to have with them?
 
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scifiantihero wrote:
GrantZilla1979 wrote:
I am more than happy to hand over my ship's dial between turns, even in a tournament. The capabilities of my ships at any given moment are open information through cards. Their maneuvering ability should be no different.

FFS, it's not a 'who-memorizes-the-maneuver-sheet-better' game. That's some Z-grade dick behavior.


At some point isn't your opponent wasting time if they haven't printed out a sheet of maneuvers to have with them?


Sure, if they are stalling by looking at your dials every few minutes. But a quick look once or twice is not a big deal. If you have a reference sheet with all the dials on it, they can look at that and it will work for everyone.
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
At some point isn't your opponent wasting time if they haven't printed out a sheet of maneuvers to have with them?


Not if the answer is available with a 2-second answer to the question. I think it is just being pedantic or difficult to not answer.

It's no different than with a game with open money asking how much someone has. Yes, I could count it myself from across the table, but that wastes time. The assumption is you have that information since it is your money, so just tell me to move the game along.

If it is open information by rule, putting up barriers to that information is, at best, wasting play time and, at worst, bordering on asshat gamesmanship.

If the opponent is asking all the time in their own attempt at gamesmanship, then call the tournament director to put a stop to it.

But a simple query that is covered by the rules, to my mind, should be answered or else you risk the game bogging down as the player gets the information through other means.

Kevin
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Derry Salewski
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natsean wrote:
Quote:
At some point isn't your opponent wasting time if they haven't printed out a sheet of maneuvers to have with them?


Not if the answer is available with a 2-second answer to the question. I think it is just being pedantic or difficult to not answer.

It's no different than with a game with open money asking how much someone has. Yes, I could count it myself from across the table, but that wastes time. The assumption is you have that information since it is your money, so just tell me to move the game along.

If it is open information by rule, putting up barriers to that information is, at best, wasting play time and, at worst, bordering on asshat gamesmanship.

If the opponent is asking all the time in their own attempt at gamesmanship, then call the tournament director to put a stop to it.

But a simple query that is covered by the rules, to my mind, should be answered or else you risk the game bogging down as the player gets the information through other means.

Kevin


uh, did you quote everything I quoted? where the guy is passing entire dials to read when the opponent wants to in between turns?

so again, there, pal:

at some point, isn't your opponent just wasting time not bringing their own sheet?

(yes.)
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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scifiantihero wrote:
natsean wrote:
Quote:
At some point isn't your opponent wasting time if they haven't printed out a sheet of maneuvers to have with them?


Not if the answer is available with a 2-second answer to the question. I think it is just being pedantic or difficult to not answer.

It's no different than with a game with open money asking how much someone has. Yes, I could count it myself from across the table, but that wastes time. The assumption is you have that information since it is your money, so just tell me to move the game along.

If it is open information by rule, putting up barriers to that information is, at best, wasting play time and, at worst, bordering on asshat gamesmanship.

If the opponent is asking all the time in their own attempt at gamesmanship, then call the tournament director to put a stop to it.

But a simple query that is covered by the rules, to my mind, should be answered or else you risk the game bogging down as the player gets the information through other means.

Kevin


uh, did you quote everything I quoted? where the guy is passing entire dials to read when the opponent wants to in between turns?

so again, there, pal:

at some point, isn't your opponent just wasting time not bringing their own sheet?

(yes.)

with the sheer number of dials now? No, it's definitely not a waste of time to ask a simple, "Does the shuttle have a 1 Turn?" In fact, digging throug all your dial sheets would take more time...

-shnar
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
uh, did you quote everything I quoted? where the guy is passing entire dials to read when the opponent wants to in between turns?

so again, there, pal:

at some point, isn't your opponent just wasting time not bringing their own sheet?


Well, mack, I did say:

Quote:
If the opponent is asking all the time in their own attempt at gamesmanship, then call the tournament director to put a stop to it.


So, if you feel the guy is doing it too much (every turn, for example), then call the tournament director and discuss it.

But a simple, "Hey, can I see your B-Wing for a second?," to my mind, is no big deal.

Now, in the next reply, call me "bub" so I can call you "fella" and we can keep this 50's slang nonsense going.

Kevin
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