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David Umstattd
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So a question came up in our game on if you can get the leader bonus on a card if the leader wasn't assigned to the mission. Specifically, Han uses old friend to recruit Chewie and then Wookie uprising is attempted in that system on the same turn by other folk (ok yes the rebels were rolling 8 dice but it was the principle of the matter)

According to page 9 of the rules reference:

"If the mission card has a leader portrait on the top-
left corner of the card, its owner gains two additional
successes if one of the leaders assigned to this mission
matches this portrait."

The key word there being "assigned"

So that got me thinking about cards like "It is Your Destiny" which says you can capture somebody attempting the mission. Which I THINK includes any free leaders that weren't assigned to the mission but just happened to be there as the rules state on page 8:

"Leaders that are in a system participate in missions and
combats that are attempted in the system."


Is that right? am I interpreting this rule right? Does "participate" mean "attempting the mission" but not "assigned to the mission." or do leaders being present in a mission automatically make them "assigned to the mission"

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Craig S.
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The pictured leader has to be assigned to the mission to get the bonus successes. Just participating because they are in the system is not enough.

I believe that only leaders assigned to a mission are the only ones that are considered to be "attempting" the mission.

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Phil Christiansen
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My knee jerk reaction would be no. Assigning leaders means placing them on the card during phase 1 specifically. A leader who just happens to be there was never assigned to the card. But that's just my thought so take it with a grain of salt.
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Scott Lewis
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Assignment seems to only apply to actually being on the card itself. Participation includes being assigned or being there already (or coming in to oppose). I am pretty sure the bonuses only apply if the leader is actually ASSIGNED (as the above posters have also said).


Regarding "participate" vs "attempt", however, I am less sure, although I personally would interpret it the same way you do, in that all leaders participating are considered to be "attempting" it, but I could see this going either way.
 
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Witold G
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David Umstattd wrote:
Does "participate" mean "attempting the mission" but not "assigned to the mission." or do leaders being present in a mission automatically make them "assigned to the mission"


Only leaders assigned to attempt-type mission are attempting it.

Think of it in this way:

Only leaders assigned to resolve-type mission are resolving it. Would you ever describe any leader not assigned to such a mission as "resolving" it? Of course not. Same with "attempting".

Besides, why would you need two separate words (participate and attempt) to describe basically the same thing?
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Scott Lewis
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Perf wrote:
David Umstattd wrote:
Does "participate" mean "attempting the mission" but not "assigned to the mission." or do leaders being present in a mission automatically make them "assigned to the mission"


Only leaders assigned to attempt-type mission are attempting it.

Think of it in this way:

Only leaders assigned to resolve-type mission are resolving it. Would you ever describe any leader not assigned to such a mission as "resolving" it? Of course not. Same with "attempting".

Besides, why would you need two separate words (participate and attempt) to describe basically the same thing?

While you could well be right, I'm not sure I agree with that logic. Since all leaders participating are rolling dice, I could see just as valid an argument saying all leaders participating are attempting the mission.

IE, as written, I don't see anything definitive stating that "attempting" = "assigned" in the context of missions, whether that was the intent or not.
 
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Witold G
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Since all leaders participating are rolling dice, I could see just as valid an argument saying all leaders participating are attempting the mission.


So you're saying that all leaders, including opposing faction's leaders, are attempting the mission, right...? Because that's a direct consequence of "an argument saying all leaders participating are attempting the mission". To quote the relevant rules again...

RR p. 06, "Command Phase" section:
"When placing a leader in a system, it does not matter where the
leader is placed within the system. The leader will participate in
all missions, space battles, and ground battles in the system."


RR p. 08, "Leaders" section:
"Leaders that are in a system participate in missions and
combats that are attempted in the system."


Additionally, captured leaders automatically attempt any missions attempted against them! laugh

RR p. 09, "Opposition" subsection:
"When a mission is attempted “against a leader,” that
leader automatically participates in the mission.

– All leaders in the system participate in this mission."



In short, "participating" clearly refers to leaders of both factions and therefore cannot possibly mean "attempting", since only one of the factions can attempt any given mission.
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Scott Lewis
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Perf wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Since all leaders participating are rolling dice, I could see just as valid an argument saying all leaders participating are attempting the mission.


So you're saying that all leaders, including opposing faction's leaders, are attempting the mission, right...?

Sorry, I should have been more clear, so I'll rephrase.

I'm saying that a possible interpretation is that if a player is attempting a mission in a system, all of that player's leaders in the system that participate are also attempting the mission. The rules do reference attempting in a "player" context.

None of your quotes really add definitive clarity to this specific situation.
 
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David Umstattd
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SomewhatDamaged wrote:
My knee jerk reaction would be no. Assigning leaders means placing them on the card during phase 1 specifically. A leader who just happens to be there was never assigned to the card. But that's just my thought so take it with a grain of salt.


I'm confused. You say "no" like you're disagreeing with me yet you agree with my original theory. That you have to assign a leader to a mission in order to get the mission specific bonus.

Though there are two questions here. Do leaders already in the system count as "attempting" the mission for the purposes of cards like "It is your Destiny" which I think is a different situation than the question of if a mission's leader bonus is triggered.
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David Umstattd
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So I may be totally wrong here, but I think there are two types of "participating in a mission" a leader can do.

1. Attempting the mission (if you're trying to make the mission succeed)
and
2. Blocking the mission (trying to make the mission fail.)

either of these situations are ones in which a leader "participates in the mission" However just because a leader "participates" in a mission doesn't mean they were "assigned to" the mission. Assigning a leader to a mission is one way a leader can participate in a mission.


No rules reference for this (because I don't think the rules define these terms this precisely) but it makes sense given the rules we have.
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Craig S.
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I believe I've found our answer:

Rules Reference wrote:
If the mission card has a leader portrait on the top-
left corner of the card, its owner gains two additional
successes if one of the leaders assigned to this mission
matches this portrait.


Learn to Play wrote:
Some mission cards have a leader’s
image below the skill requirement.
Any leader can attempt these
missions. However, if the indicated
leader attempts this mission, he
adds two successes to his dice roll.


We can extrapolate from these two passages that only the assigned leaders are "attempting" a mission. "Attempting" and "assigned" are meant to be synonymous.
 
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David Umstattd
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csouth154 wrote:
I believe I've found our answer:

Learn to Play wrote:
Some mission cards have a leader’s
image below the skill requirement.
Any leader can attempt these
missions. However, if the indicated
leader attempts this mission, he
adds two successes to his dice roll.


Knowing as we do that only an assigned leader can get the portrait bonus, we can extrapolate from this passage that only the assigned leaders are "attempting" a mission. "Attempting" and "assigned" are meant to be synonymous.


I'm afraid it's not as simple as you say for a couple of reasons :-(

1. The Learn to Play rulebook isn't cannon if it conflicts with the Rules Reference.

2. You could interpret it the opposite way: "According to the LTP guide anyone who attempts the mission gets the bonus. Which means that leaders who are assigned or are present in the system can get the bonus since we know that either of them are "attempting" the mission." Since the RR says that leaders in the system participate in the mission. If you're assuming that participate means attempt. As opposed to your assumption that Attempt means assigned. Both are assumptions and so both could be reasonable.


So I'm not more confused than ever :-/

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Craig S.
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The books are not contradicting each other because nowhere in the RR is it stated or even hinted at that "assigned" and "attempting" are NOT the same. Personally I see this as a strong case that they are, indeed, synonymous.
 
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Witold G
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I'm saying that a possible interpretation is that if a player is attempting a mission in a system, all of that player's leaders in the system that participate are also attempting the mission.


Such interpretation would lead to applying leader bonus without a need for actually assigning a specific leader to it (as per LTP rule Craig already quoted).

Additionally, Contingency Plan with Lando would become exponentially stronger and (even) weirder:
1. Rebels can perform a string of missions with bonus of 2 successes to each of them in a single system...
2. ...or even in two different systems if they manage to use Undercover as well!
3. Lando bonus would apply even to non-starting missions.
4. In this situation, if both Lando and Chewie happen to be on Kashyyyk, does Wookiee Uprising get 4 bonus successes? (Just an example, of course.)

Card for reference:

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Jorgen Peddersen
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The LtP reference is indeed a good indication to the developers' intent. Sending a question to FFG will be the way to solve this one if you want a more definitive answer.
 
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David Umstattd
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Perf wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
I'm saying that a possible interpretation is that if a player is attempting a mission in a system, all of that player's leaders in the system that participate are also attempting the mission.


Such interpretation would lead to applying leader bonus without a need for actually assigning a specific leader to it (as per LTP rule Craig already quoted).

Additionally, Contingency Plan with Lando would become exponentially stronger and (even) weirder:
1. Rebels can perform a string of missions with bonus of 2 successes to each of them in a single system...
2. ...or even in two different systems if they manage to use Undercover as well!
3. Lando bonus would apply even to non-starting missions.
4. In this situation, if both Lando and Chewie happen to be on Kashyyyk, does Wookiee Uprising get 4 bonus successes? (Just an example, of course.)

Card for reference:



This card actually makes a strong case for the "Attempt" = "assign" argument. Though I don't like basing rules off of cards and not on rule book stuffs. Guess we'll have to ask FFG
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Seems clearly stated in rulereference, page 29:

If the mission card has a leader portrait on the top- left corner of the card, its owner gains two additional successes if one of the leaders assigned to this mission matches this portrait.

Assigning is in the assignment phase: assigning leaders.
In command phase you take actions:
- reveal
- activates a system
- pass

Even more proof: revealing can only be done if the assigned leaders has combineren number of required skills.
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David Umstattd
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Arontje wrote:
Seems clearly stated in rulereference, page 29:

If the mission card has a leader portrait on the top- left corner of the card, its owner gains two additional successes if one of the leaders assigned to this mission matches this portrait.

Assigning is in the assignment phase: assigning leaders.
In command phase you take actions:
- reveal
- activates a system
- pass

Even more proof: revealing can only be done if the assigned leaders has combineren number of required skills.


Right. Seems everyone agrees on that. That rules reference was posted in the OP. That's only half the question tho.

The other question is the definition of "attempt"
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