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Bios: Genesis» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mutation's cube : Where and How rss

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philippe C.
France
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Hello,

Me again, but i think these threads could help people, and me...

Where i have to put Mutation's cube ? It's not clear, on the Mutation card or on the microorganism card ? (in the right colored space)

Then the cube is used like a cube from the refugia, for example a blue cube from a Mutatio, give to the bacteria the possibility to avoid a catastrophe error ?

Thank you
 
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Yani
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Hi,

You have to put the mutation cube on the mutation card itself. The cube is used in the same way like cubes on the microorganism (eg. green cube increases entropy, red cube gives extra catalyst during biosynthesis etc).
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philippe C.
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Thanks a lot, and when you flip the Mutation card, i keep the cube on the card with the new cube (for the new face) ?
 
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Phil Eklund
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yes
 
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philippe C.
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Thanks, and always about mutaion cubes, if i understood well, parasites steal cubes from Mutation card only, not from the organism placard (a parasite doesn't steal a cube an organism earn from the refugia it borns from). Right ?

And second question, an hyperparasite, parasite a parasite, in the rule i can read an Hyperparasite takes cube from mutation card from the parasite it parasites, if i understand well

So no mutation = no parasite.
 
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Dom B.
France
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Yes you got it right: a parasite steals...
*mutation cubes (not chromosome cubes) from its host microorganism (bacteria or parasite)
*organ cubes from a macroorganism

And indeed, no cube to steal, no parasite
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philippe C.
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Thanks ! So Manna from refugia are really important...
 
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Yani
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No Manna no Honey.

Sorry, I will excuse myself now..blush
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Lieven De Puysseleir
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Dom22 wrote:
Yes you got it right: a parasite steals...
*mutation cubes (not chromosome cubes) from its host microorganism (bacteria or parasite)
*organ cubes from a macroorganism

And indeed, no cube to steal, no parasite


Don't forget that when you steal "cubes" from the mutation cards, you need to be able to take the "last" one which arrived when the card was flipped. OR you have to be able to take both cubes at once which will remove the mutation card.

When you can only take the "last arrived" cube, the mutation card is flipped back on it's one-cube side with the remaining "correct" cube.

I do hope that made sense.
 
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philippe C.
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lievendp wrote:

Don't forget that when you steal "cubes" from the mutation cards, you need to be able to take the "last" one which arrived when the card was flipped. OR you have to be able to take both cubes at once which will remove the mutation card.

When you can only take the "last arrived" cube, the mutation card is flipped back on it's one-cube side with the remaining "correct" cube.

I do hope that made sense.


I'm surprise... For me you can take any Mutation cube, not only the last one and if you take all the cubes the Mutation card stay in place and the abilities works (HGT, red queen..). I'm sure of that, for example, if you do a Red Queen Attack against a parasite, where do you want to put the cube you bring back if you don't have the mutation card anymore ?

A mutation card is removed if we evolve to a macroorganism or if there is UV strike with max Mutations number fewer than you have.
 
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Lieven De Puysseleir
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chaps31 wrote:
lievendp wrote:

Don't forget that when you steal "cubes" from the mutation cards, you need to be able to take the "last" one which arrived when the card was flipped. OR you have to be able to take both cubes at once which will remove the mutation card.

When you can only take the "last arrived" cube, the mutation card is flipped back on it's one-cube side with the remaining "correct" cube.

I do hope that made sense.


I'm surprise... For me you can take any Mutation cube, not only the last one and if you take all the cubes the Mutation card stay in place and the abilities works (HGT, red queen..). I'm sure of that, for example, if you do a Red Queen Attack against a parasite, where do you want to put the cube you bring back if you don't have the mutation card anymore ?

A mutation card is removed if we evolve to a macroorganism or if there is UV strike with max Mutations number fewer than you have.


Appears I must've been thinking of an older rules-version? Because also found the following in another tread:
N/A

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/24048790#24048790

• Diseased Mutations. Each Parasite has two colored slots labeled Diseased cubes. To attach to a Bacterial Host, the Parasite must steal at least one of its Mutation cubes (H1) and put them into the Diseased slots of the correct color. It can steal up to two cubes, either from two Mutations or one promoted Mutation. Losing diseased cubes does not demote or remove the Host’s Mutations, or affect its Ability icons. However, a lost diseased cube sitting on the Parasite is not useful to the Host.

So .. nothing gets demoted or removed by the having it stolen by the virus. What is now the point of the virus attached to another players' organism? You'll have to reattach your virus or have it extinct to have the mutation go away together with the diseased cubes?
 
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Rich James
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lievendp wrote:
Don't forget that when you steal "cubes" from the mutation cards, you need to be able to take the "last" one which arrived when the card was flipped. OR you have to be able to take both cubes at once which will remove the mutation card.

When you can only take the "last arrived" cube, the mutation card is flipped back on it's one-cube side with the remaining "correct" cube.

I don't think that is correct. Double check the living rules. Rule E3. Attaching A Parasite And Assigning A Biont To It does not specify that you must take the "last" (aka "+") cube first when attacking a promoted mutation. It also doesn't say you have to take both cubes from a promoted mutation, only that you can (if able). And taking the cubes does not demote or remove the mutation card.

Only through loss of mutation cubes (whether diseased or not) through Atrophy (see the glossary entry) is a mutation unpromoted or lost.

Edit: ninja'd ninja
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Lieven De Puysseleir
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arjisme wrote:
lievendp wrote:
Don't forget that when you steal "cubes" from the mutation cards, you need to be able to take the "last" one which arrived when the card was flipped. OR you have to be able to take both cubes at once which will remove the mutation card.

When you can only take the "last arrived" cube, the mutation card is flipped back on it's one-cube side with the remaining "correct" cube.

I don't think that is correct. Double check the living rules. Rule E3. Attaching A Parasite And Assigning A Biont To It does not specify that you must take the "last" (aka "+") cube first when attacking a promoted mutation. It also doesn't say you have to take both cubes from a promoted mutation, only that you can (if able). And taking the cubes does not demote or remove the mutation card.

Only through loss of mutation cubes (whether diseased or not) through Atrophy (see the glossary entry) is a mutation unpromoted or lost.

Edit: ninja'd ninja


hence my question: what is the point of the virus now? It was used against me in this way to destroy a mutation from my organism which kind of fits the "warfare" aspect.

I'm not getting the point of using the virus in this case.

Oh, you could still use it to make it transform into a macro-organism with the stolen chromosomes and possible mutations on the virus itself.
 
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Rich James
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One reason to attach a parasite is to gain your first green organism -- either because you are the green player or your parasite can steal a green cube. Absent either of those, you can also mutate the parasite to gain a green chromosome. Getting a green organism early will allow you to place 2 bionts in Refugia.

Another reason would be to deny the organism the benefit of the cubes you steal. That can impact its ability to survive Darwin rolls (error catastrophe), perform biosynthesis, and survive events like O2 spikes and extremophile crises.

Another reason would be you are hoping your biont (in your parasite) will be incorporated into an about to emerge macroorganism as an endosymbiont. That will allow you to split the VPs for that macroorganism.
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philippe C.
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I agree with Rich James, just one more thing : if you don't have luck with dices, with parasite you can move forward even you don't have an organism into your tableau pool. If you don't you can see other players build organisms and only be hunger because of unlucky dices you do nothing. With parasite, you play, purchase mutation, add new cubes (earn catalyst, more Biont..), hope to be endosymbiont in a macroorganism, in one word : play with others to make life and make points !
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