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Subject: Don't look, it is that nonexistent voter fraud thing... rss

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An ongoing CBS4 voter fraud investigation has uncovered a dozen cases where Coloradans are suspected of voting twice. Previous CBS4 Investigations revealed ballots cast in the names of Coloradans who had been dead for months– sometimes years- before votes were cast in their names.

In six of the new cases, voting records show the same people voting twice in Colorado elections. In another six cases, people are suspected of voting in Colorado and another state during the same election cycle
.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/10/25/cbs4-investigation-fin...
 
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J.D. Hall
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Could be fraud. Could be all that legal weed they smoke.
 
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Mike Stiles
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Doesn't Colorado have voter ID requirements?
 
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Steven Woodcock
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Been some weird things going on down in Texas too...so far they've been able to switch over to paper ballots.

And one I think in Wisconsin (?) that, amazingly enough, actually slanted towards the Republican candidates...that doesn't happen very often. That particular programmer has probably been fired and/or suicided by now. *

*(I joke! I joke! Kinda.)


Ferret
 
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Damian
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No one says it's (in person voter fraud) "nonexistent". It's "effectively nonexistent", meaning it happens in such tiny, tiny amount as to be insignificant. Twelves people voting in two different states is pretty meaningless.

Also:
Quote:
Lincoln Wilson, a registered Republican from Hale, in Northeast Colorado, is accused of voting in both Colorado and Kansas in 2010, 2012 and again in 2014. Wilson told CBS4 he voted in both states, but only “voted on local issues” and “didn’t vote twice for President.”
Wilson is one of five Coloradans now charged by the State of Kansas for voting in both states.

Randall Killian, an unaffiliated voter, pleaded guilty to voting in Douglas County, Colorado and Kansas in the 2012 presidential election. Ron Weems, a registered Democrat, pleaded guilty to voting in Teller County, Colorado and Kansas in both 2012 and 2014. Both men were fined for their offenses.

Kansas has also charged James Criswell, a Republican from Douglas County, and Sharon Farris, a Republican from Denver, with double voting. Their cases have not been resolved yet.


Three Republicans, an independent and a Democrat. Huh.

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TheDashi wrote:
Quote:

An ongoing CBS4 voter fraud investigation has uncovered a dozen cases where Coloradans are suspected of voting twice. Previous CBS4 Investigations revealed ballots cast in the names of Coloradans who had been dead for months– sometimes years- before votes were cast in their names.

In six of the new cases, voting records show the same people voting twice in Colorado elections. In another six cases, people are suspected of voting in Colorado and another state during the same election cycle
.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/10/25/cbs4-investigation-fin...


Six cases! TWELVE CASES!

Well, we all know how much Republicans love throwing money at minority cases when it's politically expedient.

Wait, they already found these and are investigating? It's working as intended? Huh.
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jeremy cobert
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damiangerous wrote:
No one says it's (in person voter fraud) "nonexistent". It's "effectively nonexistent", meaning it happens in such tiny, tiny amount as to be insignificant. Twelves people voting in two different states is pretty meaningless.


So it's not really that important that every vote counts ? what % of fraud in voting would make you take notice ?

also what's your source ? obviously in non swing states fraud wont make any difference, but in swing states it certainly can.
 
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damiangerous wrote:
No one says it's (in person voter fraud) "nonexistent". It's "effectively nonexistent", meaning it happens in such tiny, tiny amount as to be insignificant. Twelves people voting in two different states is pretty meaningless.

Also:
Quote:
Lincoln Wilson, a registered Republican from Hale, in Northeast Colorado, is accused of voting in both Colorado and Kansas in 2010, 2012 and again in 2014. Wilson told CBS4 he voted in both states, but only “voted on local issues” and “didn’t vote twice for President.”
Wilson is one of five Coloradans now charged by the State of Kansas for voting in both states.

Randall Killian, an unaffiliated voter, pleaded guilty to voting in Douglas County, Colorado and Kansas in the 2012 presidential election. Ron Weems, a registered Democrat, pleaded guilty to voting in Teller County, Colorado and Kansas in both 2012 and 2014. Both men were fined for their offenses.

Kansas has also charged James Criswell, a Republican from Douglas County, and Sharon Farris, a Republican from Denver, with double voting. Their cases have not been resolved yet.


Three Republicans, an independent and a Democrat. Huh.



Thanks also for noting that it is not the current election.
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Ben Foy
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I'm glad Colorado is stamping out the few cases of voter fraud that exist. But it is amusing that most the people accused of committing it in Colorado are registered Republican. whistle
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BFoy wrote:
I'm glad Colorado is stamping out the few cases of voter fraud that exist. But it is amusing that most the people accused of committing it in Colorado are registered Republican. whistle


Yeah, because voter fraud is a partisan issue...
 
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Damian
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jeremycobert wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
No one says it's (in person voter fraud) "nonexistent". It's "effectively nonexistent", meaning it happens in such tiny, tiny amount as to be insignificant. Twelves people voting in two different states is pretty meaningless.


So it's not really that important that every vote counts ? what % of fraud in voting would make you take notice ?

also what's your source ? obviously in non swing states fraud wont make any difference, but in swing states it certainly can.

It's important, but it's a matter of diminishing returns of effort and result. Not to mention unintended consequence. I wouldn't want to implement something that would prevent those 12 people from voting fraudulently if it made it much more difficult for a thousand people to vote legitimately.
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damiangerous wrote:
It's important, but it's a matter of diminishing returns of effort and result. Not to mention unintended consequence. I wouldn't want to implement something that would prevent those 12 people from voting fraudulently if it made it much more difficult for a thousand people to vote legitimately.

Quite true. But one could say the same for speeding tickets. Regardless of political affiliation, voting illegally is a crime, a serious one, as it goes to the heart of the Republic -- the right to vote.
 
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The thing is (and this has been referenced), this has never really been about actual problems with fraud.

"Voter Fraud" is the rights "Industrial Hemp".
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remorseless1 wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
It's important, but it's a matter of diminishing returns of effort and result. Not to mention unintended consequence. I wouldn't want to implement something that would prevent those 12 people from voting fraudulently if it made it much more difficult for a thousand people to vote legitimately.

Quite true. But one could say the same for speeding tickets. Regardless of political affiliation, voting illegally is a crime, a serious one, as it goes to the heart of the Republic -- the right to vote.


And isn't that why most people also don't get speeding tickets? Not sure of your point there.
 
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Ben Foy
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TheDashi wrote:
BFoy wrote:
I'm glad Colorado is stamping out the few cases of voter fraud that exist. But it is amusing that most the people accused of committing it in Colorado are registered Republican. whistle


Yeah, because voter fraud is a partisan issue...


Because voter disenfranchisement is a partisan issue...
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TheDashi wrote:
BFoy wrote:
I'm glad Colorado is stamping out the few cases of voter fraud that exist. But it is amusing that most the people accused of committing it in Colorado are registered Republican. whistle


Yeah, because voter fraud is a partisan issue...

You fucking hypocrite.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
BFoy wrote:
I'm glad Colorado is stamping out the few cases of voter fraud that exist. But it is amusing that most the people accused of committing it in Colorado are registered Republican. whistle


Yeah, because voter fraud is a partisan issue...

You fucking hypocrite.


You say that but have nothing to back it up.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:

So it's not really that important that every vote counts ? what % of fraud in voting would make you take notice ?

Lets face it - every vote does not count (and I'm doubtful that there's an electoral system possible where it does. Just that "first past the post is one of the poorer systems from this point of view)

Fraud should be stamped-on where reasonable - starting with gerrymandering and other organised fraud†. But it is only a major concern in cases where it comes within sight of changing the result or is blatantly at such a level to cause lack of public confidence in the result (an example of the latter is the perception of organised personation previously in Northern Ireland* and more recently within certain ethnic communities in cities in Northern England).

† Is the use of big data for targeting particular groups of voters also fraud? Discuss.

* the origin of the phrase "Vote early; Vote often"

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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Oh yeah










What they could do in NJ to improve voting is:
1) have a paper trail
2) pay poll workers higher wages and vet them (no 90-year-olds running machines)
3) extend the voting times from midnight to midnight. Hell, the day is already 16 hours, might as well extend it and have 2 shifts. Right now our district is disenfranchising Wall Streeters who come home on the late train. It's unfair.
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damiangerous wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
No one says it's (in person voter fraud) "nonexistent". It's "effectively nonexistent", meaning it happens in such tiny, tiny amount as to be insignificant. Twelves people voting in two different states is pretty meaningless.


So it's not really that important that every vote counts ? what % of fraud in voting would make you take notice ?

also what's your source ? obviously in non swing states fraud wont make any difference, but in swing states it certainly can.

It's important, but it's a matter of diminishing returns of effort and result. Not to mention unintended consequence. I wouldn't want to implement something that would prevent those 12 people from voting fraudulently if it made it much more difficult for a thousand people to vote legitimately.

Exactly.

In our district the main problems are old poll workers (hell yes, ageism) forgetting how to run the system. And people failing to update their address. If people tried to rig the system (and I thought of this because I bitterly hate my local mayor) it would be very noticeable because in presidential years about 50% of the rolls vote, and 10% in non-presidential elections.
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Also, 10%...in a privileged area where people actually have sick and personal days...yay democracy and civic duty!shake
 
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TheDashi wrote:
Quote:

An ongoing CBS4 voter fraud investigation has uncovered a dozen cases where Coloradans are suspected of voting twice. Previous CBS4 Investigations revealed ballots cast in the names of Coloradans who had been dead for months– sometimes years- before votes were cast in their names.

In six of the new cases, voting records show the same people voting twice in Colorado elections. In another six cases, people are suspected of voting in Colorado and another state during the same election cycle
.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/10/25/cbs4-investigation-fin...


Meanwhile in Indiana, 40,000+ mostly African American votes will be suppressed because of seizure of their registration forms in an "investigation" which ,not surprisingly, will last until after the election day it appears

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/24059832#24059832

Showing two things

1. The real threat to voting is not fraud, but vote suppression

and

2. The hysteria over vote fraud is usually a cover for said suppression.

So whining over 12 votes and ignoring 40,000+ given this is just the same old alt right excuses for their own rigging the election, because 12 (maybe) votes ain't going to swing a state, 40,000 just may be able to.

Thanks for the hypocrisy display.
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Kumitedad wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Quote:

An ongoing CBS4 voter fraud investigation has uncovered a dozen cases where Coloradans are suspected of voting twice. Previous CBS4 Investigations revealed ballots cast in the names of Coloradans who had been dead for months– sometimes years- before votes were cast in their names.

In six of the new cases, voting records show the same people voting twice in Colorado elections. In another six cases, people are suspected of voting in Colorado and another state during the same election cycle
.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/10/25/cbs4-investigation-fin...


Meanwhile in Indiana, 40,000+ mostly African American votes will be suppressed because of seizure of their registration forms in an "investigation" which ,not surprisingly, will last until after the election day it appears

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/24059832#24059832

Showing two things

1. The real threat to voting is not fraud, but vote suppression

and

2. The hysteria over vote fraud is usually a cover for said suppression.

So whining over 12 votes and ignoring 40,000+ given this is just the same old alt right excuses for their own rigging the election, because 12 (maybe) votes ain't going to swing a state, 40,000 just may be able to.

Thanks for the hypocrisy display.


Where is the hypocrisy if both of these things are bad?

The hypocrisy here is someone like you whining about this 40,000 people thing, and not saying a freaking word about the Black Panthers intimidating white people at a polling place.

It is all bad.

But requiring an ID, is not voter suppression.
That is just common sense.
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