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Trickerion: Legends of Illusion» Forums » General

Subject: How to Start rss

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Aaron Hannigan
United States
Maryland
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Hows the easiest way to start playing this game? Right with the dark alley rules or start with the base game first. I'm a little worried my playgroup might suffer rule-paralysis by the amount going on and might be confused with the dark alley rules from the beginning. Or is that a baseless worry?
 
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Mark Beazer
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Orem
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I recommend starting with just the base rules.

Dark Alley is great, but it adds a lot more to think about. Personally I felt pretty overwhelmed with the planning I needed to do in just the basic game! (The first few games, anyway)
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Daniel Herrero
United States
New Jersey
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I thought it was going to be overwhelming but we went for the Dark Alley and, oh boy, that was fun!!! The other version looks too simple for me. Definitely quicker though.
 
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Michael D
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Try this progression

1. Base game 5 rounds
2. Add dark alley but not the prophecies action
3. Use dark alley with the prophecies.
4. Add the magician abilities.
5. Add the magician powers cards.

You can probably combine 3 and 4 but you have lots of incremental rule add ons.
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Ted Morris
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We left out the Dark Alley on our learning game and I'm glad we did. It's one of the heavier games I own and there was a lot to take in! The shorter play time made it much more approachable. If you play a lot of heavy games you could probably jump right in but having the training wheels on for the first game helped my partner who can be quite resistant to learning a ton of rules at once.

That being said, the game really comes alive once you throw Dark Alley and everything else in!
 
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Colm McCarthy
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Madison
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+1 for basic game. The game is heavy. The game is long. There's more than enough going on without adding the advanced game and expansion stuff in. We didn't even know what we were doing on our first couple of turns. But after one or two games, definitely play the advanced game.
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Shepherdsville
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First game just the basic game. Against the grain, there is no way I'd play dark alleys without magical powers. So I say 2nd game, everything. But I don't play with the programming, so results will vary.
 
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Barry Miller
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Saint Charles
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Well, assuming your group is going to play the game at least a few times, why not start with the base game?

I mean, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I always assume I'll play my games more than once, so I always start with the "basic" version of any game for the very first play. I guess I'm just more comfortable knowing I've got the basics down first - no matter how hard or how easy the advanced version may be.

But if I have good reason to believe I'll play a game only once or twice, then that's a different story!

 
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Barry Miller
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SeerMagic wrote:
But I don't play with the programming,...

Huh? Can you elaborate?

 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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bgm1961 wrote:

SeerMagic wrote:
But I don't play with the programming,...

Huh? Can you elaborate?


We simply play without it, so it plays like a more traditional worker placement game. When it's your turn, you play a card from your hand on a worker spot to activate them. Dark Alley cards go straight to your hand for intimidate use (we play with them face down). I love the game so much more this way, and cut an hour of fat (ap) off the game. Plus it's easier for newbies.
 
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Barry Miller
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I figured that's what you were talking about, but wanted to make sure. I would think that skipping the programming removes a HUGE element of what makes this game unique among WP games, and also what provides a lot of strategic depth to the game.

Interesting. Though I can see it would work as a good introductory variant, or for groups heavy on the AP scale.



 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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bgm1961 wrote:

I figured that's what you were talking about, but wanted to make sure. I would think that skipping the programming removes a HUGE element of what makes this game unique among WP games, and also what provides a lot of strategic depth to the game.

Interesting. Though I can see it would work as a good introductory variant, or for groups heavy on the AP scale.


I still play with it at 2p. But at higher count I disagree, I think it's more strategic without. Programming games in their nature leads to a lot of randomness. Everytime I played with 4p, someone was getting screwed by it. It had little to do with strategy.
 
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BT Carpenter
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Reston
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SeerMagic wrote:
bgm1961 wrote:

SeerMagic wrote:
But I don't play with the programming,...

Huh? Can you elaborate?


We simply play without it, so it plays like a more traditional worker placement game. When it's your turn, you play a card from your hand on a worker spot to activate them. Dark Alley cards go straight to your hand for intimidate use (we play with them face down). I love the game so much more this way, and cut an hour of fat (ap) off the game. Plus it's easier for newbies.


The "programming" means that after the plans are flipped, you can figure out which actions are more important/prioritized. It also locks in your actions/plan.

Without this phase, it feels like the game will take longer because players can (and will) change course mid-turn, having to re-evaluate their position.
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Dustin Crenshaw
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byronczimmer wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
bgm1961 wrote:

SeerMagic wrote:
But I don't play with the programming,...

Huh? Can you elaborate?


We simply play without it, so it plays like a more traditional worker placement game. When it's your turn, you play a card from your hand on a worker spot to activate them. Dark Alley cards go straight to your hand for intimidate use (we play with them face down). I love the game so much more this way, and cut an hour of fat (ap) off the game. Plus it's easier for newbies.


The "programming" means that after the plans are flipped, you can figure out which actions are more important/prioritized. It also locks in your actions/plan.

Without this phase, it feels like the game will take longer because players can (and will) change course mid-turn, having to re-evaluate their position.


It doesn't, because every turn, each player must sit and analyize all 3 other players actions of where they are going and when. Instead of the programming part taking forever, it's just completely skip. My games are down about an hour with this change.
 
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Michael D
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I wouldn't want this game to be over in an hour.

The joy of the performance is found in the work you must put in to get it to the stage.

I find myself playing against my last final score more than I do my oppon

Any hint of an expansio I'm drooling.
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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electricalstorm wrote:
I wouldn't want this game to be over in an hour.

The joy of the performance is found in the work you must put in to get it to the stage.

I find myself playing against my last final score more than I do my oppon

Any hint of an expansio I'm drooling.


Down an hour, not to an hour :) Still solid length of time.
 
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Damian White
New Zealand
Auckland
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I would recommend Dark Alley for your first play, but without Prophesies and/or Magician Abilities. Five rounds should do it.

The Basic Game is a much simpler beast -- it's been compared to Stone Age in terms of weight -- and so assuming you'd be playing with experienced gamers, I'd skip it. What's more, the Special Assignment cards add so much to the strategic feel of the game, I think it would a different -- read: lesser -- game without them.

While it's a great game, it can run a little long, especially in the final couple of rounds, and even more so with a full 4 players. Keeping it to 5 rounds will give you a feel for the depth of the game, without it overstaying it's welcome.
 
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Ken Sinn
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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Recommending the use of Dark Alley, but not necessarily Prophecies or Dargon's Gifts. Reason is that in base game, it's possible to have your action cards completely wasted, if others pick the same ones.

with Dark Alley there's a reduction in your base cards to reduce the collisions.
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