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Robert Boyens
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Mission Viejo
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I played the first tutorial. Each time the Brits attacked, the Germans were able to retreat to absorb losses. Then on their turn, they moved back to contact the Brits, and even attacked the units that advanced after combat using concentric attack (2 column shift for Germans) and caused the Brits to retreat and take step losses.

Brits did not even come close to winning.

Is this the norm for this scenario?
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Bryan Felsher
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I only played it once, and it went about as you describe. I think it's hard for the Brits to win if the Germans defend and roll well. I wouldn't play this scenario competitively but just use it to learn some of the basic rules and move on as the game gets really good when you play with all the rules.

As for the tutorials, T5 and T10 were the only tutorial scenarios that I felt had a lot of replay value, but I had fun playing and learning from all of them.
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Mark Mokszycki
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How are you dividing up your Brits' attacks? If you do only two or three attacks per turn and put yourself in the 5:1 odds column, you should be able to destroy some German units.

The Brits should attack the weakest link(s) in the line each turn. If they are able to outflank the line entirely, they should go for that option instead. This means the Germans have to spread themselves thinly and evenly.

Without witnessing your strategy, I can't really suggest anything else.

Mainly I've heard complaints that this tutorial is impossible for the Germans to win, so it's refreshing to hear two opinions to the contrary. I felt it was fairly well balanced in my three or four playings.
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Bryan Felsher
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I just played it again, and the British won easily....so I don't know what the heck I was doing the first time I played it. And- now it seems to me like it's impossible for the German's to win! I'll probably play it again, figure out something new and change my mind back again that it's impossible for the British to win!
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Robert Boyens
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Played against a live opponent last night - 3 times. I was Brits - got my a** kicked twice (once on the first turn). Finally figured out that the Brits have to forget about taking the village and try to take out 3 German units while keeping a defensive perimeter. Can get 2 5:1 odds and 1 4:1 odds on the CS 2 units, and then roll at least one 10+ on the attacks each turn. The losses I suffered where due to the German concentric attacks, so have to defend against those and keep a solid perimeter. Also take advantage of the close terrain to infiltrate as ZOC does not extend into those hexes.
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Bryan Felsher
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Cool Robert.

Sounds like you figured it out, too. I won as the Brits yesterday basically the same way.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just "threaten" to take the village so the Germans have to deal with that threat and thin out even more. Basically, two big stacks attacking the German right flank, with extra infantry behind them so if the Germans try and concentrate, they can go around the German left flank. If Brits get a break thru in close terrain, they can get behind the Germans for concentric attacks. I tried to concentrate my attacks on Pioneers if possible as they have a lower retreat allowance. Once you get into Assaults, you'll see that Pioneers are hard to break as they have flamethrowers and get a triple CS in assaults (Yellow boxed CS).


Now....I wonder if there's a good German defense to this tactic.
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Mark Mokszycki
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Glad to read that you guys are figuring it out!

Quote:
Once you get into Assaults, you'll see that Pioneers are hard to break as they have flamethrowers and get a triple CS in assaults (Yellow boxed CS).


Minor correction: Only vehicles with yellow-boxed CS have their CS tripled in Assaults. This is due to the impunity with which they can employ their lethal close-range weapons (Petard mortars and flamethrowers). They also qualify for the column shift.

The pioneers, being infantry, gain the column shift but not the tripled CS.
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Robert Boyens
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duckweed wrote:

Glad to read that you guys are figuring it out!

Quote:
Once you get into Assaults, you'll see that Pioneers are hard to break as they have flamethrowers and get a triple CS in assaults (Yellow boxed CS).


Minor correction: Only vehicles with yellow-boxed CS have their CS tripled in Assaults. This is due to the impunity with which they can employ their lethal close-range weapons (Petard mortars and flamethrowers). They also qualify for the column shift.

The pioneers, being infantry, gain the column shift but not the tripled CS.


Yes, and this ,makes the second tutorial very hard for the Brits - if the Germans stack up both strong points with 4 units, they can get a defense of 9 or 11. The max the Brits can get in 1 hex is 18, which gives them a 2:1 to start at best. Then 2L for the strong point and a third L for the pioneer unit makes for 2:3 attack, and even worse if the Germans have 11 defense points.
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Bryan Felsher
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Hi Mark,

Thanks for correcting me. Thankfully, I haven't made this mistake in my actual games. I don't recall seeing any German AFV's with yellow boxed CS yet. I have used the AVRE's to good effect though.

However, I did notice that I haven't been playing the column shift when Pioneers assault close terrain and I have definitely done that with them. (gotta read the fine print- note #4 on the first page of the player aid).

Yellow CS only has an effect during assaults, correct? There is a reference to a 1R shift per yellow boxed CS unit during an "attack" but since the first sentence on the player aid talks about Assaults, I assumed that "attack" meant "assault". I hope I've played that right...
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Mark Mokszycki
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Quote:
I don't recall seeing any German AFV's with yellow boxed CS yet. I have used the AVRE's to good effect though.


Vehicles with yellow-boxed CS include the German Flammpanzerwagen and the British Crocodiles and AVRE. Also note that the Flammpanzerwagen and Crocodiles--both which have flamethrowers--have a special rule (per rules section 12) that lets them cancel the effects of enemy Strongpoints on losses.


Quote:
Yellow CS only has an effect during assaults, correct? There is a reference to a 1R shift per yellow boxed CS unit during an "attack" but since the first sentence on the player aid talks about Assaults, I assumed that "attack" meant "assault". I hope I've played that right...


Yes, yellow-box CS only applies during Assaults while orange-box CS applies during both Combats and Assaults.

fwiw, the term "attack" in this game is used to mean any type of attack roll--Combat, Assault, Ranged Attack, or Anti-Tank Fire.
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