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Subject: (WIP) SUPER TIN BOWL -2016 Mint Tin Design contest -IDEA PHASE rss

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martin
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SUPER TIN BOWL


DESIGNER Martin Melbardis

OVERVIEW
A card game where the player(s) take the role of a coach of an American football team competing for the Super Tin Bowl. Players must select their offensive and defensive plays wisely and attempt to get a first down in order to finally score a touchdown or even a field goal. The game includes Dice rolling, Area control and simultaneous "play" selection.

Entry for the 2016 Mint Tin Design contest

NUMBER OF PLAYERS
1 or 2

COMPONENTS
32 play cards
8 Coach cards
2 Field cards
4 Team cards
2 Score cards
2 Timeout cards
10 Cubes
4 Dice

FILES FOR PNP
None yet

I will begin developing this game in November, Once Battle of Brit-Tin is fully updated to Version 1.0
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martin
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Reserved for future use

Here is a defensive play card I have been working on a while back just to show what I am aiming for with this design.

 
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J F

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Very interested to see how this develops!
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WELCOME TO THE SUPER TIN BOWL! The biggest tin match of the year!

Firstly, This game is partly inspired by Blood Bowl a game that I grew up playing and still love It is one of my all-time favourite games to play.

Here is the GAME PLAN:

The game would simulate Offensive drives. Each team gets one per quarter and so they get 4 'Drives' per game. This is very abstracted and I realise that theoretically a team may score a maximum of 28 points in a game, but hey, I have to make sacrifices somewhere and this ain`t the NFL. Also each drive the team starts at their end at the 30 yard line (unless there was a turnover or the opposing team elected not to punt on the 4th down) They will have four downs to get 10 yards to continue ect ect. If they fail to get a field goal, Touchdown or even a first down, the opponent gets to go on offence. After both players have gotten an offensive drive the `quarter` ie Turn is finished.

PLAY CARDS
Each player gets 8 offensive play cards and 8 defensive play cards. When on offence (on a OFF Drive) a player can only play OFF play cards and the same goes for when on defence, only DEF cards. The players choose Simultaneously a play card from their decks and place them facedown. Then they reveal which play each player has chosen. The play vs play will have a somewhat similiar mechanism to rock-scissor-paper but ALOT more complex with dice rolls involved. Lets say a defensive Blitz play would be very advantageous versus a Hail Mary offensive play for example.

MOVEMENT ON THE PITCH
This is where the Blood Bowl inspiration comes from. Each play card is divided into zones (3x3) on defensive plays, the football players will be allocated to certain zones. The offensive play cards reveal which zones the pass or Rush will go throught. Placing the two cards next to each other and comparing, the players will be able to tell how many defenders are in the way for example of the Running back's path, how many tackles the Running back has to dodge or even how many defenders are in the zone the QB is throwing at ect. ect. The more defenders in that zone and the better the quality of those defenders.. the harder it is to succeed. The more zones the offensive moves the ball up, the more yards they gain.

DICE ROLLING AND PLAYER TALENT POOL
-The game would also include alot of dice rolling.
-Players (8 on the field at a time) would be divided into 3 tiers, Average, Good and Star. That would be the only stats. Each team would have 3 stars, 5 Good and 8 average players. Each team will have the same mix of talent but in different positions. One team might have a star QB and the next team might have an average QB.

TIMEOUTS
Also thinking about abstracting the hell out of Time-outs. Each team gets 1 time-out per half and they will give multiple choice bonuses such as Gain an extra Re-roll (momentum), Gain an extra Down this drive or when choosing plays place 2 facedown instead of one..When your opponent reveals his card, you may then choose which of the two cards you placed to use. Or another option would be to call a timeout to steal a momentum from the opposing team.

MOMENTUM
Momentum plays a large role in football and often games are a tale of two halves or even a big mistake/turnover demoralizes a team just like a big play can give new hope and change the game completly. Too reflect this I will be introducing a Momentum tracker. Momentum is just another fancy word for re-rolls. You can gain momentum by being the hometeam, causing a turnover, making a big play, timeouts ect. ect.

SOLO PLAY -OPPOSING COACH A.I
Solo play will be included in the game. I am currently thinking of having 4 OFFENSE and 4 DEFENSE A.I cards, one for each down (1st down card, 2nd down card) Each card will have a number of options for each variable in the game. So for example on a 3rd down A.I card there will be a list of variables such as 3rd and goal? 3rd and 10? 3rd and 5 yards? under each variable will be 3 play options for the A.I to counter the most likely choice by the player.

After the player picks his play, the player looks up the corresponding A.I card depending on which down it is. He will then roll a D3 and consult the play options to determine which exact play the A.I has chosen.

This way on say a 3rd and 5, The player will likely play a rushing play, so maybe 2/3 of the options on the 3rd down A.I card will be good plays vs. rushes..The third would be a play geared towards defending passes. Not sure if this would work or not...will have to test.

OTHER THINGS TO INCLUDE:
Field goals, Turnovers (fumbles and Interceptions)and QB Sacks and as much else that can fit in a mint tin!





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James Ronald Lo
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Subscribed sire!
Looking forward to the components.
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martin
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Spent a little bit of time tonight to work on an offensive play template. This is what I have come up with. Right now trying to figure out how to easily differentiate the players/positions from one another. The quality of the player is displayed by the base (ie. Star players have stars, Good players have circles, Average players have squares)



On another note, Gave the A.I some thought and posted it in the GAME PLAN post above. Or you can click below to see my thoughts.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
SOLO PLAY -OPPOSING COACH A.I
Solo play will be included in the game. I am currently thinking of having 4 OFFENSE and 4 DEFENSE A.I cards, one for each down (1st down card, 2nd down card) Each card will have a number of options for each variable in the game. So for example on a 3rd down A.I card there will be a list of variables such as 3rd and goal? 3rd and 10? 3rd and 5 yards? under each variable will be 3 play options for the A.I to counter the most likely choice by the player.

After the player picks his play, the player looks up the corresponding A.I card depending on which down it is. He will then roll a D3 and consult the play options to determine which exact play the A.I has chosen.

This way on say a 3rd and 5, The player will likely play a rushing play, so maybe 2/3 of the options on the 3rd down A.I card will be good plays vs. rushes..The third would be a play geared towards defending passes. Not sure if this would work or not...will have to test.

 
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Benjamin Wack
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melbards wrote:
Right now trying to figure out how to easily differentiate the players/positions from one another. The quality of the player is displayed by the base (ie. Star players have stars, Good players have circles, Average players have squares)


Just a suggestion : for better readability, make it so that the more pointy bits a player has, the better he is. So switch the circles and squares. Or that, and use triangles for the Averages. Or use stars with 3, 4 and 5 points... you get the idea.
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martin
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I see what you mean. Good suggestion thanks. Will likely switch the squares with circles for average players.
 
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melbards wrote:
I see what you mean. Good suggestion thanks. Will likely switch the squares with circles for average players.


What about both a shape change and color change?

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martin
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thanks for the suggestion. that would be another option. If I were to use colors to represent different talent levels, I'd likely stick with one color but different shades. For example have the star players use a bright blue, the good players have a standard blue and the average players have a dark blue.

I would'nt want the team playing under a rainbow
 
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Well you could do an outer color, like Blue and Red, and then inner colors like gold/silver, but keeping the shapes for color blind folks, maybe dots for player rank too.
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Quote:
Well you could do an outer color, like Blue and Red, and then inner colors like gold/silver, but keeping the shapes for color blind folks, maybe dots for player rank too.


The outer color is a good idea. I will have to give it a try this weekend. Thanks!

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Did you make the graphics yourself?
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martin
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Quote:
Did you make the graphics yourself?


Yes the graphics are made by me using a 3d renderer. The only exceptions are the icons which are from game-icons.net (a great resource)
 
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I`ve been doing some test runs for drives (not full playtest yet) and I thought I would share one.

The New York Griffins (blue) are in possesion of the ball at the opponents 30 yard line. Its first down and ten yards. The Alabama Wild (red) are on the defensive.

The first play:


SACK?
1st thing to do is to compare the defense`s Pressure rating for that play (clock icon) to the offensive teams`pocket defense rating (shield icon) a 4.5 VS 4. Because the Pressure is higher than the pocket def, there is a chance of a sack. 1 dice is rolled, needing a one for a sack. 3 The offensive lineman hold off and the QB gets a pass off.

THE PASS
The intended pass was for the Tight End (TE) at zone B+5. When comparing to the Wild`s defensive play setup, there are no players present and the Defensive zone coverage is a `0` (yellow numbers in the top left corner of each zone. The QB is a star player and compares his rating versus the zone coverage. He needs a 2+ to complete the pass. 2 he rolls a 2, just making it. The TE catches the pass at zone B+5

THE RUN
The Screen pass play has the TE, once in possesion of the ball to run with it from zone B+5, to zone A+10 then to zone A+15. There is no Wild players in zone B+5 to dodge and so the Tight end runs the ball into zone A+10 with no dice rolls. At zone A+10 there is a player covering that zone and so to escape A+10 the tight end will have to make a dodge roll. The Tigh end is rated as average (round base) vs The wild`s CB who is rated Good (square base)he needs a 5+ to dodge the tackle and rolls a 4 he fails and is tackled in zone A+10. He did however manage a first down by getting 10 yards.

Move the Brown cube on the field to the 20 yard line and leave the game track at 1st and 10.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the Next play


SACK?
comparing the pocket defense vs the pressure 4 vs 6.5. The Griffins roll 3 dice to avoid being sacked (on rushing plays its not a sack per say, but a loss in yards)He rolls a 456 Looks like no loss of yards on this play.

The RUSH
This play has the QB hand the ball off to the RB who runs in down the left flank. The RB enters zone AS which has a good CB defending it and so the RB has to make a dodge roll to continue. The RB is rated good as well and so needs a 4+ to dodge. he rolls a 3 and is tackled for a gain of 0 yards.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The next play


SACK
Once again comparing pocket def to pressure. the Pressure is one point higher and so forces the Griffins to make a single roll. 1 The QB is sacked! The offensive lineman could not hold back the defensive line. The griffins lose 5 yards.

Adjust the ball on the field to represent the loss and move the tracker to 3rd down and 15 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------.
3rd and 15 yards



SACK
The pocket def is rated at 4 vs Alabama`s pressure of 4.5. One dice will be rolled...5 No sack

THE RUSH
The QB hands off the ball to the RB who then enter zone CS. This zone is covered by a Good Linebacker and so the RB will need a dodge roll of 4+ to ecsape the zone and proceed. He rolls a 5 and dodges the tackle and moves into zone C+5. This zone has an average Corner back defending it and so the RB will need a 3+ to dodge and escape the zone coverage. He rolls a 3 and just barely makes it by!

He proceeds to zone C+10 which is empty, however The adjacent zone (B+10) has a safety in it that will provide some cover. The RB will need a roll of a 2+ to dodge.. he rolls a 5 and makes it! He now moves into zone C+15 with a 15 yard guarantee and now rolls for extra yards (D6+Rating x 5 yards) He rolls a 2 +1 (he is a good player) x 5 yards...He gains and extra 15 yards and Scores a touchdown!



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Benjamin Wack
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Well, I'm quite used to convoluted rules and gameplay, but I can't make any sense of this.

This is probably because I don't know anything about American Football, but that will be something to bear in mind when you write down your rules : do you want them to be self-contained, or do you assume the reader has some prior knowledge about football...

Good luck !
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Swampy Crocker
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As someone who lives football, I am very excited for this game. It looks simple and straight foward.
Monsieur Wack, I can totally understand your confusion. Even my wife, who occasionally watches football struggles with the rules. I would say this game does a good job representing he basics, but first you have to know the bbasics.

PS I apologize for any spelling/grammar errors. My phone was lighting up with messages and it was messing with my typing and spellcheck.
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Quote:
Well, I'm quite used to convoluted rules and gameplay, but I can't make any sense of this.

This is probably because I don't know anything about American Football, but that will be something to bear in mind when you write down your rules : do you want them to be self-contained, or do you assume the reader has some prior knowledge about football...

Good luck !


Hi Benjamin, The playtest post was done quickly at 2 in the morning just to give a sense of what the game would be like. I probably could have been more descriptive about some of the rules of football but its also true that I did assume people following the game would already have a base understanding of american football in general. When I do write the rulebook they will be self contained...No prior knowledge of football will be required, however it certainly wouldn't hurt

Quote:
As someone who lives football, I am very excited for this game. It looks simple and straight foward.
Monsieur Wack, I can totally understand your confusion. Even my wife, who occasionally watches football struggles with the rules. I would say this game does a good job representing he basics, but first you have to know the bbasics.

PS I apologize for any spelling/grammar errors. My phone was lighting up with messages and it was messing with my typing and spellcheck.

Thanks for the interests SwampMonster! I can only hope that this game fills a certain niche for boardgamegeeks that also happen to be football fans
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J F

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After seeing your brief post on the playtest I am extremely excited. I cannot wait to see files posted to try this out!
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Quote:
After seeing your brief post on the playtest I am extremely excited. I cannot wait to see files posted to try this out!


At the time it felt like anything but brief It took me about a hour to post it and this was like at 2-3am in the morning...

Thanks for the continued interest! I will be doing a few more playtests and hopefully have a rough draft of the rules in about a week or so. Expect the full PNP and rules to be ready some time in mid November.
 
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So Ive finished up the Griffins entire playbook. 8 Offensive plays and 8 defensive plays. Tommorow will likely work on the Wild playbook. After that a few more playtests and finally the rulebook.

One question...Should I make a low ink version first? or just release full graphic?

 
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Swampy Crocker
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My wife fully supports a low ink version after I started printing the cards for a lot of other PnP games. My wallet would also thank you.
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You have two 5-2-1 blitz cards for defense.... Is that intentional?
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Quote:
My wife fully supports a low ink version after I started printing the cards for a lot of other PnP games. My wallet would also thank you.


I totally understand..I am lucky in a way in that I can print stuff off at work..So for me ink is not an issue. Consider it done. I will make everything low ink to begin with. Here is a sample play card in all of its low-ink glory:




Let me know if its low ink enought... I could probably make it leaner in a few areas.

Quote:
You have two 5-2-1 blitz cards for defense.... Is that intentional?

Good catch Tyraziel. I did happen to notice notice it earlier today at work and no, it was not intentional Usually I work on my games later at night after an 9 hour work shift and sometimes fatigue factors in...Well thats my excuse and I'm sticking with it

ON SOLO PLAY
On a further note, I've been giving the solo play A.I some serious thought today and came up with this.

Each Down (1-4) will have a seperate A.I card both for Offensive plays and defensive plays (8 cards in total). Each card will have a list of variables such as the team needs 10+ yards, 5 yards, and goal. 4th down will likely be a little more complicated in terms of variables such as in opponent's 35, in opponent's 20-30, Losing in the 4th quarter ect..


Here is a sample:
-----------------

1st DOWN A.I card

10+ yards to 1st down
roll a d6
1-2 RUSH play#2
3-4 PASS play#4
5 PASS play#8
6 PASS play#6

5 yards to 1st down
roll a d6
1-2 RUSH play#1
3-4 RUSH play#2
5 PASS play#7
6 PASS play#6

The dice is rolled after the player chooses which play he wishes to use for his own team.

This would make the A.I choice of plays random and not very predictable. However, depending on the down and how many yards are needed to get a 1st down, the choice of plays will be most likely reflect the situation.

So say on a 4th down on his own 35 yard line, the A.I losing by 7pts in the 3rd quarter. He would have something like a 88% chance of electing a punt and say a 12% of "going for it" by rolling a normal play such as a pass or rush. But if it were the 4th quarter (the AI's last chance to tie the game) He would be "going for it" at 100%

I hope this makes sense. The variables such as the AI using a timeout and when to use momentum re-rolls would also complicate things abit. There's only so much you can fit on a business sized card!
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Swampy Crocker
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I think the low ink card looks great. The player avatars like kind of weird, but that is something I think most people can live with. Plus the shapes seem to pop better on a white background, making it easier for those with poor vision.
Sorry to ask you to do extra work, but for the players it will be worth it.
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