$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 123.59

7,390 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
46.6% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
65 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Tiny Epic Quest» Forums » General

Subject: Stretch Goals are Super Lame! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Johnny Truant
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
Is it me...Or are the first several stretch goals things they were going to do all along? It seems like they are simply pretending like the stretch goals are extra or earned, when really they are the norm for their games.

Seems super lame. I mean, as they say, they are known for having great boxes, so how in the frick is this a stretch goal?

Seems disingenuous at best.
26 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Knutson
United States
Alexandria
VA - Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think those are typically the first few stretch goals on Tiny Epic Kickstarters, and still I think that Gamelyn runs some pretty good Kickstarters.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Egbert
United States
Woodbury
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't have an issue with them.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad103
United States
Skaneateles
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Think of it like Computer Software. Most of the time the entire application is developed in full, with all features implemented, and then they strip away or lock down all the extra bits to sell as a 'freeware' version. That's how many kickstarters seem to work. Now they can use these 'stretch goals' to bring in more backers. It's a smart move, and it helps everyone in the long run anyways.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
noah caldwell
United States
galt
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's fine as well .. you feel like your still getting something for your money and their not going in the hole or giving the house away ! offering upgrades and then added stretch goals material 2nd is a good idea I think .I feel it's a win for both sides . At 24 bucks by the time it ends you will have gotten a number of extra content.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
mbmbmbmbmb
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.
88 
 Thumb up
0.35
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fightcitymayor
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Proprietor and Chairman Emeritus of The Naughty Palace
mb
Braffe wrote:
Think of it like Computer Software. Most of the time the entire application is developed in full, with all features implemented, and then they strip away or lock down all the extra bits to sell as a 'freeware' version. That's how many kickstarters seem to work. Now they can use these 'stretch goals' to bring in more backers. It's a smart move, and it helps everyone in the long run anyways.
But essentially it's lying to your paying customers, and the OP is right in that regard.

Does that mean this isn't a good value? No. But I do wish Gamelyn would move away from these typically bogus Kickstarter "stretch goals that aren't really stretch goals."
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr. UDO
United States
Chandler
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
[This space intentionally left blank]
mbmbmbmbmb
While I don't think that anyone thought TEQ would be a failure, if it had only funded to the minimum level, they wouldn't have been able to give all the upgrades and still make a profit. Smart stretch goals make the backers see the game getting better and materials upgrades work great for that.
22 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Andersen
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.


thumbsup
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Rouse
United States
Thibodaux
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Enough people give them money, they can afford to add these things. How on earth is that essentially lying? These upgrades are not free to them. It is reasonable for them to want more money to include more expensive components.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Morton
United States
Pittsburgh
PA
flag msg tools
[Daytrip Gaming]
mbmbmbmbmb
Why did what ain't broke.

Their KS's are formulaic. But they also.always succeed, make a ton, and usually make all the Stretch Goals.

They run them the same, because.... Well they work that way.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Crane
United States
WASHOUGAL
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is why I won't back the tiny games anymore. The first game ok, now they are making bank and want to act like they are going to put out a sub par quality game and damage their brand unless it super funds. This would be like cmon saying if it hits this much money we will upgrade to season 2 level quality minis and if it hits this much it will hit season 3 quality.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad103
United States
Skaneateles
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Now I'm thinking back to the final stretch goal of TEW...

$450,000
Life Moment
Tiny Epic Retreat
Sent Scott and Adam to the Wild West
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johnny Truant
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
angelkurisu wrote:
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.


Really? The "worst" part? Methinks you haven't "kickstarted" before.

Typical modern/online comment...everything is always the best or the worst.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johnny Truant
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
VaeVictis666 wrote:
This is why I won't back the tiny games anymore. The first game ok, now they are making bank and want to act like they are going to put out a sub par quality game and damage their brand unless it super funds. This would be like cmon saying if it hits this much money we will upgrade to season 2 level quality minis and if it hits this much it will hit season 3 quality.


Exactly. There's no way they are going to release an edition that would damage their brand. They always planned on putting out the "stretch goal" version, but they are pretending like we're unlocking things. We're not really unlocking anything.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michel Velleman
Canada
Gatineau
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.


Word.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
fightcitymayor
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Proprietor and Chairman Emeritus of The Naughty Palace
mb
adamxpaul wrote:
Enough people give them money, they can afford to add these things. How on earth is that essentially lying? These upgrades are not free to them. It is reasonable for them to want more money to include more expensive components.
Kingdoms: $286,972
Defenders: $162,372
Western: $468,629
Galaxies: $411,635

When a company with that track record makes stretch goals like "Box upgrade @ 30k!" and "Another box upgrade @ 45k!" then it's a fundamentally misleading way to run a KS.

If you're cool with going down that road, then hey, cool, go for it. Gamelyn are certainly not the only company to do this sort of "stretch goals that aren't really stretch goals" maneuver in order to drum up hype. And one look at KS tells you that most KS are basically lying to you (Does anyone here believe that $15,000 was the actual pledge goal? Of course not. That doesn't make it any less of a lie.) But don't get all upset when not everyone toes the company line, and points out the inherent lies of Kickstarter. A lie agreed upon is still a lie.

It doesn't mean the game won't be good, it doesn't mean Gamelyn are terrible people, it just means Gamelyn are no longer small-timers, they are KS pros. And it might be time to move beyond these sorts of non-stretch-goal hype goals. They will make their $$$ regardless, so why not just give it to us straight.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Egbert
United States
Woodbury
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnytruant wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.


Really? The "worst" part? Methinks you haven't "kickstarted" before.

Typical modern/online comment...everything is always the best or the worst.


There are a lot of backers that feel entitled to certain things since they back a project. Sure, they are helping something become a reality because they are putting money towards it but I don't believe it allows people to demand certain things. I've seen backers demand design changes repeatedly and on the stretch goal subject, when one project fell short of a stretch goal (a few 100 dollars), several backers demanded the creator give the stretch goal to them. Just sad to see in my opinion.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Kern
United States
Bowling Green
KY
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnytruant wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.


Really? The "worst" part? Methinks you haven't "kickstarted" before.

Typical modern/online comment...everything is always the best or the worst.


Funnily enough, you're responding to someone who has run several successful kickstarter campaigns. I'm sure Chris knows full well how annoying stretch goal whining can be.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
fightcitymayor wrote:
adamxpaul wrote:
Enough people give them money, they can afford to add these things. How on earth is that essentially lying? These upgrades are not free to them. It is reasonable for them to want more money to include more expensive components.
Kingdoms: $286,972
Defenders: $162,372
Western: $468,629
Galaxies: $411,635

When a company with that track record makes stretch goals like "Box upgrade @ 30k!" and "Another box upgrade @ 45k!" then it's a fundamentally misleading way to run a KS.
So do you think it would be better if they had no goals at those numbers? What difference does it make?

The only difference I see is that IF despite the extremely low odds they had trouble making much money, they would be stuck promising upgrades that they could not afford. The stretch goals simply say if we get this money, we can promise you this and if we don't, we can't. It is not different than how the goal of 15k determines if the game gets made or not.
16 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jin Juku
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnytruant wrote:
Is it me...Or are the first several stretch goals things they were going to do all along? It seems like they are simply pretending like the stretch goals are extra or earned, when really they are the norm for their games.

Seems super lame. I mean, as they say, they are known for having great boxes, so how in the frick is this a stretch goal?

Seems disingenuous at best.


They're the "norm" because their Kickstarter projects always reach that mark.

I'm assuming they've run the numbers, and to allow for the nicer boxes (etc), they have to sell a certain number of units. Whether or not they've done Kickstarter projects before doesn't change the numbers they have to achieve to provide the upgraded components. It's not like the extra upgrades suddenly cost less just because they've done them before.

The other option would be the upgrades being the base product, but requiring a higher base goal, and higher stretch goals.

However, they seem to have struck the just-right formula, so I'd rather they not switch things up.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnytruant wrote:
angelkurisu wrote:
Stretch goal whining is the worst part of the KS community. If you want the game, get the game.


Really? The "worst" part? Methinks you haven't "kickstarted" before.

Typical modern/online comment...everything is always the best or the worst.


As someone who has run many kickstarters and backed many kickstarters, it is definitely the worst part.
24 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony L
msg tools
It's not stretch goal hype, though. It's factoring in the cost of the upgrades against their funding goal. Jamey Stegmaier has a great series of posts about KS projects, and the seventh (http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter-lesson-7-the-funding-...) is knowing where to set the funding goal. This kind of stuff is important, and setting easy to reach stretch goals is just another way of ensuring the expected level of quality while also feeling confident that the game will be funded.

Sure TEQ could set a higher funding goal, and eliminate stretch goals, but people enjoy stretch goals, and no one likes an outrageous funding goal. Doing what they're doing is not sneaky, it's just a tried and true model. Would you really rather that the initial funding goal be $60k, and the stretch goals only be additional components?
23 
 Thumb up
1.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Egbert
United States
Woodbury
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
IAHawkeye wrote:
It's not stretch goal hype, though. It's factoring in the cost of the upgrades against their funding goal. Jamey Stegmaier has a great series of posts about KS projects, and the seventh (http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter-lesson-7-the-funding-...) is knowing where to set the funding goal. This kind of stuff is important, and setting easy to reach stretch goals is just another way of ensuring the expected level of quality while also feeling confident that the game will be funded.

Sure TEQ could set a higher funding goal, and eliminate stretch goals, but people enjoy stretch goals, and no one likes an outrageous funding goal. Doing what they're doing is not sneaky, it's just a tried and true model. Would you really rather that the initial funding goal be $60k, and the stretch goals only be additional components?


Great point!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Logan
United States
Havertown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
My words literally betray me.
mbmbmbmbmb
johnnytruant wrote:
Is it me...Or are the first several stretch goals things they were going to do all along? It seems like they are simply pretending like the stretch goals are extra or earned, when really they are the norm for their games.

Seems super lame. I mean, as they say, they are known for having great boxes, so how in the frick is this a stretch goal?

Seems disingenuous at best.


hate the game*, not the players. Kickstarters with stretch goals apparently generate more support.


*and I meant the "kickstarter game", not the game being funded
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.