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Subject: Is Myth a good alternative to Descent rss

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Jason Beighel
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I've been playing Descent fully co-operative, mostly solo, against the Road to Legend app. It's fine, it works, but I'm less and less excited to play it after each game.

The combat in the game starts to feel tedious during the game because my characters options are set when the game starts. There's still strategy in getting to the quest objectives, but a lot of it falls into a rut of basic attack, move, basic attack, move...

I'm thinking that the cards randomizing the actions you can take will make each turn more of a puzzle, possibly giving the game better longevity for me. Watching Rahdo's run through of the game this seems to be how the game plays out.

Have I got this right, or is there something I'm overlooking?
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Ben Locke
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I cannot directly answer your question, because I haven't played Descent. I have, however, played the RAIV version of Imperial Assault (co-op mode, essentially), and while I think it improves a broken game, I still prefer Myth. You are correct, Myth and the card play mechanic make turns and battles much more tactical. There are "fiddly bits" with Myth too, but easily deal-with-able - in my opinion.
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zee ogre
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After my group got into Myth, Descent stopped hitting the table.

!HOWEVER

Myth isn't for everyone. It's got a steep learning curve, and even after you know how to play, it demands a lot from you. Right now, there's nothing for Myth like the Road to Legend app to walk you through setup and add atmosphere. We've been told that the forthcoming "Module" content will improve on the story aspect, but that content hasn't been released even to Kickstarter backers yet, it's expected sometime in 2017. "Rise of the Revenant" web content is supposedly a taste of what Modules will do. It's available for free to download on the Myth website.

Once you're through the learning curve, each game is as difficult as you want it to be, as tactical as you want it to be, and has as much story/plot as you're willing to put into it. Some people prefer that sort of player-driven experience. If you do, then you will probably like Myth. If you prefer a game that meets you halfway, you should probably give Myth a try before going all-in.

I hope that you discover you enjoy the game, it's brought hundreds of hours of enjoyment to my gaming group.

Cheers!
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Dan Renwick
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I like them both a lot but I prefer Myth to Descent. As the others have said, though, Myth requires a lot more of you. Descent is much, much more streamlined.
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Jason Beighel
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12from1 wrote:
I have, however, played the RAIV version of Imperial Assault (co-op mode, essentially), and while I think it improves a broken game, I still prefer Myth. You are correct, Myth and the card play mechanic make turns and battles much more tactical.


There is a Redjak version for Descent as well, and it does improve things. It's on the cumbersome side, but is much more flexible than the app. Anyway, from a co-op perspective, I agree that Descent is broken. You're never really going to overcome that competition between heroes and the overlord. The balance required for that really cuts into what options can be given to either side.


zogre wrote:
Once you're through the learning curve, each game is as difficult as you want it to be, as tactical as you want it to be, and has as much story/plot as you're willing to put into it.


This sounds like what I really want in a game. The Descent app is fairly rigid and playing to win, so if I'm not always moving efficiently toward victory it will eventually overwhelm me with peril effects or monster spawns. It's not really awful, but it does force you into a particular play style which I'm not always in the mood to play.

What you describe sounds like the dungeon crawl I play the most, Guardians' Chronicles. You can pick whatever objectives and villains you'd like to face, and build the game you're in the mood for. If that's what Myth allows, then sign me!


Thanks all of you for the info, it's been very helpful!
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David Griffin
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Myth doesn't have a progression of balanced missions, or any real story in the game. As others have said it's also hard to learn (watch lots of videos) from the manual. It's more of a tactical game with a fantasy flavor and a self directed quality that is unique. It's a wonderful game if you work at it with the right people.
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Tim Chase
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I love the card mechanics and turn structure. I've also found that Myth inspires my creativity, like no other game I've played. I enjoy thinking about the game when I'm not playing, and doing hobby projects for it. I ended up selling my Descent 2E collection.
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Shawn Hubbard
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One thing is that Descent has a leg up on character progression and variety. Different monster types, a nice skill upgrade kit, and some cool gear. Myth has the gear (with rhe expansions anyway) but their character progression is a lot less defined.

That said, I tend to enjoy Myth more than Descent overall.
 
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David Ainsworth
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I dunno. Descent's character progression only goes so far, I've often found I have everything I really want in a class skill tree after a few games. Myth's (in its current state) gives new passive abilities and adds extra cards to your deck and while it feels like those rules were thrown in as an afterthought in the current version of the game (even in 2.0) I do think (hope?) that, since Journeyman is all about progressed characters, that the whole system will be rounded out.
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Geoff ...
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I own and like both games. Descent with the RtL app is great IMHO, and I play it with my non-gamer wife quite a bit of late. Myth on the other hand I play with a few gamer mates, and we appreciate the tactical nuance and card interplay there.

Myth is similar to Monolith's Conan in that heroes do not have set turns. This makes for great team planning and combos/execution. You'll lose a lot playing solo, IMHO, as Myth's co-operation/teamwork is one of it's greatest strengths.

Descent solo would be a terrible bore, but it's quite the fun romp with a few people playing the heroes vs the RtL GM (yes, GM, not Overlord) .

EDIT: Grammer, sheesh.
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Paul Aceto
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Quote:
I'm thinking that the cards randomizing the actions you can take will make each turn more of a puzzle, possibly giving the game better longevity for me.


You've pretty much nailed it right there. I own, play and enjoy both, though for a persistent campaign I'll take Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients any day.

However, the tactical card play is Myth is fantastic, the best combat system I've seen in a dungeon crawler. As you wrote, each turn is a real challenge in terms of trying to get most out of what you have. And when you can pull off a spectacular move (like having the Trickster drop a spring trap that enables the Soldier to launch herself into the middle of a pack of Tailless and wipe them out with Harvest of Bones), it's a great feeling.

The other game I own that has a similar tactical card element and simialr feel is Fireteam Zero.
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Jason Beighel
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Geoff wrote:
Myth is similar to Monolith's Conan in that heroes do not have set turns. This makes for great team planning and combos/execution. You'll lose a lot playing solo, IMHO, as Myth's co-operation/teamwork is one of it's greatest strengths.

Descent solo would be a terrible bore, but it's quite the fun romp with a few people playing the heroes vs the RtL GM (yes, GM, not Overlord) .[/size]


I know solo isn't going to be as good as with a group, it never is but it's what I do mostly at present. I'm still hopefully the randomized cards and the flexibility of grabbing any tile to become the next room will be more interesting than what the Descent App offers.


Zouave wrote:
You've pretty much nailed it right there. I own, play and enjoy both, though for a persistent campaign I'll take Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients any day.

[...]

The other game I own that has a similar tactical card element and simialr feel is Fireteam Zero.


I never much looked into Shadows of Brimstone. I was never much of a western fan and Deadlands didn't do much change my opinion of that. I'm not sure what Shadows of Brimstone has to spice things up.

I have read about Firestorm Zero and it should also fit really well for me. I was thinking Myth first just because I like fantasy settings.


Thanks again for all the opinions and details, it's very helpful to me.
 
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David Ainsworth
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Sometimes I prefer solo to playing with others.

Shadows of Brimstone is fine, and I enjoy it, but the game play is similar to Descent in that turns consist of move and then roll a bunch of dice. The choices are in character setup rather than turn to turn.
 
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David Griffin
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I bought SoB but not Descent because I didn't always have someone available to play DM. I bought Myth for the same reason. Not the same kind of game but similar in theme.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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Just a few things to consider:

The card play in MYTH is really, really great BUT it can also lead to players not getting any useful cards. There are heroes that are
more prone to this kind of chokes, but it can happen to all of them. Mind you, that this means, you won't be able to do anything (aside from moving).
I've had players at the table that take this kind of enforced inactivity with pure spite and won't go anywhere near the game anymore. If you have players that fall into this category, then I would really think twice before getting the game.

A lot of things you may take granted coming from "Descent" just don't exist in MYTH. E.g. as some others here have already mentioned, the "level-up" system is very, very barebone and slow atm and there is no consistent way to do it as you have 2 ways of playing the game and no official rule how to get your heroes from one mode to the other. There is a lot more missing in comparison with the classic fantasy boardgame (I'm trying to avoid the term "dungeon crawler" - because MYTH
has nearly no sense of exploration). It's all about the combat. If you want more out of MYTH you'll have to work for it.

The game is awesome but don't fool yourself and believe that there is more to it than just killing hordes and hordes of monsters. It CAN be more, if you have a lot of time, money and imagination to invest. If you
can and want to commit, MYTH can become something really unique in your game collection.

The game you are coming from has majored over a long time, is in the hands of a well-known publisher, has a big fan-base, is successful in retail and will be supported for years to come.

MYTH on the other hand... well... you have been warned





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Jason Beighel
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nimmzwei wrote:
A lot of things you may take granted coming from "Descent" just don't exist in MYTH. E.g. as some others here have already mentioned, the "level-up" system is very, very barebone and slow atm and there is no consistent way to do it as you have 2 ways of playing the game and no official rule how to get your heroes from one mode to the other. There is a lot more missing in comparison with the classic fantasy boardgame (I'm trying to avoid the term "dungeon crawler" - because MYTH
has nearly no sense of exploration). It's all about the combat. If you want more out of MYTH you'll have to work for it.


After playing Descent a while I'd call it's level-up system barebone and slow as well. It takes a few encounters to earn XP, so your character is stagnant for quite a while. This bores me since it makes all the combats feel the same since I'm doing the same things every turn.

I would also argue that Myth offers similar exploration than Descent does. If you play Descent with an overlord the entire map is revealed at the beginning of the game, you also have all the information the overlord does so there are no surprises around the next corner. The app does hide what's beyond the next door, but once you've played the campaign once you know what to expect there as well.

From what I've seen in the how to play Myth videos you choose the next tile, which means that you don't know what's coming. Granted you choose it so it's never really a surprise either. The fact that the next tile isn't already defined sounds more like exploration to me.

To be clear I own and have played Descent, I'm also bored with the game and thus have a negative view. Myth I've only seen in youtube videos so I could be totally wrong about this, if so I would love to be set straight.


nimmzwei wrote:
The game is awesome but don't fool yourself and believe that there is more to it than just killing hordes and hordes of monsters. It CAN be more, if you have a lot of time, money and imagination to invest. If you can and want to commit, MYTH can become something really unique in your game collection.


I haven't seen a lot of the quest cards in Myth, but I was hopeful that they'd be on par with the quests that Descent offered. Descent's quests largely are gather things on the map then maybe bring them somewhere or maybe prevent enemies from doing the same. Nothing deep, but a nice twist on the killing hordes of monsters even if it really just boils down to a time limit in which to kill off the hordes of monsters.

Is there anywhere I can get a look at the quest cards to see what sort of things they add to the combats?
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Paul Aceto
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Sure. Megacon uploaded the 2.0 cards a while ago. Go to this link and look for the Myth 2.0 Content download.

http://megacongames.com/downloads/

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Tobias Loeffler
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You can head over to http://megacongames.com/downloads/ and download the 2.0 patch. It includes all the base game quests.

I prefer to warn people before they get into this game, because many people expect too much from it, without really looking what it acutally is.

Oh... ninja

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Geoff ...
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JBeighel wrote:
I would also argue that Myth offers similar exploration than Descent does. If you play Descent with an overlord the entire map is revealed at the beginning of the game, you also have all the information the overlord does so there are no surprises around the next corner. The app does hide what's beyond the next door, but once you've played the campaign once you know what to expect there as well.

From what I've seen in the how to play Myth videos you choose the next tile, which means that you don't know what's coming. Granted you choose it so it's never really a surprise either. The fact that the next tile isn't already defined sounds more like exploration to me.

To be clear I own and have played Descent, I'm also bored with the game and thus have a negative view. Myth I've only seen in youtube videos so I could be totally wrong about this, if so I would love to be set straight.

The Descent campaign has quite a bit of variety if you have some of the various expansions. Each expansion adds a new side-quest (which you may or may not see in a given campaign, or may not have time to travel to even if it is available), as well as new monsters that the "GM" will opt to spawn, and new equipment to purchase at the city.

Also, I strongly disagree re: Myth having the sense of exploration that RtL has. In Myth, you're picking the tile and populating as you see fit. This is not a surprise, it's just you saying "this will be next". RtL on the other hand reveals and builds the dungeon as you traverse...

Which brings me to the new "Delve" mode of play. This was added to RtL very recently. Delve mode will in fact generate new dungeons based entirely on the physical content you have. It also rapidly levels the party in order to provide a "mini" campaign that can be played in a single evening. It seems this strongly addresses your concerns that (1) there is only one campaign, and (2) it takes a long time to level up, thus you stagnate.

Perhaps give it a try. But I'll also advocate Myth .
 
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Jason Beighel
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Geoff wrote:
The Descent campaign has quite a bit of variety if you have some of the various expansions. Each expansion adds a new side-quest (which you may or may not see in a given campaign, or may not have time to travel to even if it is available), as well as new monsters that the "GM" will opt to spawn, and new equipment to purchase at the city.


I hadn't given much thought to gear. I wondered how that actually works out in Myth. In Descent you can visit the shop after a quest, and luck of the draw determines if it has something of interest to the party or not.

As I understand it in Myth the medium sized tiles spawn a merchant, so you kinda get the same effect. Myth appears to offer far more chances to get equipment during a quest though, I don't know the exact odds but with a a player overlord its 1 card in the treasure deck and with the app it's absolutely never.

I sort of assumed the gear would more or less balance out as a character development option.


Geoff wrote:
Which brings me to the new "Delve" mode of play. This was added to RtL very recently. Delve mode will in fact generate new dungeons based entirely on the physical content you have. It also rapidly levels the party in order to provide a "mini" campaign that can be played in a single evening. It seems this strongly addresses your concerns that (1) there is only one campaign, and (2) it takes a long time to level up, thus you stagnate.


I heard of that mode coming out, but I haven't tried it. I suppose it's cheap enough to be worth an experiment. Though I'd imagine there'll be a bunch of youtube play throughs posted by now.
 
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Rob Davis
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JBeighel wrote:
I hadn't given much thought to gear. I wondered how that actually works out in Myth.


Merchants aren't the primary main way you gain gear in Myth.

Every time you kill 3 minions with a single attack/action, kill a Captain or higher, or a Lair, they "drop" a treasure token on the board. If a hero picks up the token they get to draw a coin out of the treasure bag, then draw an item from the corresponding Item Deck. So a copper coin = copper item deck, silver coin = silver item deck, etc.

It is one of the core mechanics of the game.

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David Griffin
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davro33 wrote:
JBeighel wrote:
I hadn't given much thought to gear. I wondered how that actually works out in Myth.


Merchants aren't the primary main way you gain gear in Myth.

Every time you kill 3 minions with a single attack/action, kill a Captain or higher, or a Lair, they "drop" a treasure token on the board. If a hero picks up the token they get to draw a coin out of the treasure bag, then draw an item from the corresponding Item Deck. So a copper coin = copper item deck, silver coin = silver item deck, etc.

It is one of the core mechanics of the game.



But you can only keep the gear during the game, not the next game unless you have a title for each "kept" gear. Feels a lot like Zombicide BP -- at least it feels more like that than a campaign game. How much stuff does Descent let you keep between missions?

I'm not sure there is anything like a real campaign in Myth out of the box.
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:


But you can only keep the gear during the game, not the next game unless you have a title for each "kept" gear. Feels a lot like Zombicide BP -- at least it feels more like that than a campaign game. How much stuff does Descent let you keep between missions?

I'm not sure there is anything like a real campaign in Myth out of the box.


Would it be better if we considered Myth to reflect more of a "roguelike" experience? At least in free-form/adventure mode.

Some of your hero's power comes from equipment, but each time you start, you (basically) have a clean slate.

Each time you enter the game, the dungeon (sequence of tiles) is unknown; you'll discover it, the enemies you face, as well as NPCs you encounter(random quest and merchant draws) as you go.

Once you get past the early easy stuff it can get pretty hard, you need to know your party's abilities and how they synergize in order to defeat tougher enemies.

There is no real endpoint, no "amulet of yendor" except what you set for yourself, though.

One of the big thing about roguelikes is that even though the game is similar each time you play, and your actual character starts from scratch; you, as the player, "level up" in knowledge every time. You learn what enemies you can handle and when, when to run away, etc. With Myth I think it's similar - you level up the treasure bag and your own knowledge of your deck and your party combos independent from whatever gear you have. The campaign isn't necessarily a series of linked stories. The link is you and your friends having experiences together.
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