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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Orion Trader - meaning of "Both" rss

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David Jones
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"Draw the top card from another player's Advancement Deck and give that player the top card from your deck. Both players may choose to develop these new Research projects or discard them as normal."

Perhaps this comes from reading too many rule clarification threads for eurogames, but in many games "both" usually means that the two sides are required wile "each" means that you evaluate the options independently. With this in mind, the way this card reads, the two players would have to agree to develop the traded technologies; if either declines the other must also discard. Is this the intended outcome of the card, or can one player choose to develop even if the other does not?
 
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Nova Cat
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Nothing about the card indicates that one player's actions are contingent on the other player.
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David Jones
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Novacat wrote:
Nothing about the card indicates that one player's actions are contingent on the other player.


Nothing about the card indicates that the actions are independent either. Your argument is not conclusive.

Both vs Each - Read the explanation about sentence two (dogs and daughters) being ambiguous. The same problem applies here. The way the sentence is worded, it could be one joint decision or two separate decisions. If the actions are meant to be independent, they could have said:

Each player may choose to develop the received Research project or discard it as normal.

The fact that they didn't use clearer wording opens up the possibility that this is a single decision, not two. Similarly, the fact that "projects" is plural rather than singular also lacks a tone of independence.

 
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Craig S.
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I understand where the OP is coming from; he does have a case for requiring clarification. I do agree with Nova about the intent, though.
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Day Life
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davypi wrote:
"Draw the top card from another player's Advancement Deck and give that player the top card from your deck. Both players may choose to develop these new Research projects or discard them as normal."


I read this as....

• You pick a player and You draw the top card of his Tech Research Deck
• You choose to either add it to your research que or discard it.
• You draw the top card of your Tech Research Deck and give it to the player you picked
• The player you picked ALSO gets to choose to add the card you gave them to their que or discard it.

Remember you need a spare research slot to be able to add it to your que.
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George
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While "Each" would be clearer than "Both", I think the intent is pretty clear, so agreeing it's the simplest interpretation of each player independently getting the option.

If it actually means that both players must do it or neither can, then the power should say a lot more clarifying that. In other words, if that is the intent then the power is worded horribly.

But "Both" instead of "Each" is merely non-ideal wording.

(The "as normal" also supports that no other requirements are being added.)

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Salty
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The decisions are independent. One player can choose to develop while the other doesn't.

I definitely see how it could be interpreted the other way, but I played with one of the developers at a demo event, and we had one player take the project and the other discard it.
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Ryan Hanson
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Just to be clear, the discarded cards would go back to the bottom of their original owners decks right?
 
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Craig S.
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Hansolo88 wrote:
Just to be clear, the discarded cards would go back to the bottom of their original owners decks right?


Yup.
 
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Gale Force Nine LLC
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It's an independent decision, not dependent on whether or not the other player decides to keep the card they drew. When discarded, the card would go back to its original deck.
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joe macias
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I have a separate question related to "orion trader" and was wondering in someone here could help me out, when it says "may choose to develop these new Research projects or discard them as normal." would choosing to develop involve spending a command? This came up in a recent game and I thought not but others thought otherwise. Thank you for any help!
 
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Craig S.
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fastjack wrote:
I have a separate question related to "orion trader" and was wondering in someone here could help me out, when it says "may choose to develop these new Research projects or discard them as normal." would choosing to develop involve spending a command? This came up in a recent game and I thought not but others thought otherwise. Thank you for any help!


No it doesn't cost a command.
 
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