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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Space Lanes only count to Max Connections if there is a planet on the end? rss

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Day Life
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You know how you can leave a system at impulse and place a space lane but there is no planet on the end of it as you have not entered the other system and as long as you sit on the space lane, then the lane stays on the board regardless of if there is a planet on the end of it or now..

Well, dose that unconnected space lane count towards the max connections of the system you are coming form?

Example

• I have a 5 connection system with two connections to my empire that is close to a Klingon system and I'm worried about them making a connection to my system and attacking me.
• Can I simply use impulse to move 3 ships out 2 spaces and fill the 5 space lane max limit even though none of those space lanes have planets at the end of them.

The question is basically this... can you "block" people from making their own connections to your systems?


 
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Craig S.
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A space lane is a space lane whether it's open-ended or not. A system cannot have more than its max. If it's at max, you cannot place a new one.
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Day Life
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right... so the space lane still counts even if it dose not connect to a planet...

This makes sense but also means that you can easily block off planetary connections by sending out some ships into the lanes with no intent of exploring planets.



So I am blue, I am worried that red is going to connect to my system.



By simply moving a ship with impulse out like this, I have effectively blocked anyone from connecting to my planet making it very easy to protect Culture Nodes. Also as you have not placed a planet you can even do this when there is not enough room to place a planet.

OR... dose it only count to the lane limit if there is a connecting planet?

For the Record

We have been playing that for the space lane max count to be filled there has to be a planet attached to the end of the lane and that when there is no planet on the end BOTH players are free to move it.
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Nova Cat
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Indeed, I've even seen this strategy used to prevent an opponent from back-dooring into someone's homeworld. There wasn't room to place a new planet, so the defending player sent a ship into a new space lane and just left it there, preventing the rival's access.
 
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Todd Warnken
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It would count as a space lane. No where in the rules does it say it does not count.
 
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Day Life
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For the Record

We have been playing that for the space lane max count to be filled there has to be a planet attached to the end of the lane and that when there is no planet on the end BOTH players are free to move it.
 
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Craig S.
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DayinDaLife wrote:
OR... dose it only count to the lane limit if there is a connecting planet?


You're over-thinking. The number is the max number of connected lanes, not lanes with planets at the other end.
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Craig S.
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DayinDaLife wrote:
For the Record

We have been playing that for the space lane max count to be filled there has to be a planet attached to the end of the lane and that when there is no planet on the end BOTH players are free to move it.


This is confusing statement. Only the player performing a move may manipulate floating systems or lanes, and they are free to manipulate any floating system or lane on the board.
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Day Life
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I think this is a terrible rule.. we will house rule it as...

"That for the space lane max count to be filled there has to be a planet attached to the end of the lane and that when there is no planet on the end BOTH players are free to move it. "

While the rules do not say you can not do it, I kind of agree, this is so open to abuse that it is, imo, an over site in the game design.

You can with VERY little effort completely lock out your entire civilisation form contact with other players at the cost of a few single build credits (as the credits are 1 per ship)... then convert your whites to Yellow and just farm the win. It doesn't take long to get any system to have 3 yellows and in most cases you have a few whites.

I believe this is such a bad rule that it should really be errated.
 
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Craig S.
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DayinDaLife wrote:
then convert your whites to Yellow and just farm the win. It doesn't take long to get any system to have 3 yellows and in most cases you have a few whites.


What the what? First of all...NO system can have three culture nodes. Some can't even have one, most can only have one, and none can have more than two.
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Day Life
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You can build a node of your choose on any "white" space on the planet. I do not think there are any that allow you to build 3 in a single system.. I'm talking about your entire empire. As you can get to 1 ascendency every 2 turns very easy, with no way for your opponents to even interact with you, and you can get to 1 ascendency a turn after some exploring in your own walled off area with some luck.
 
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Day Life
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There is ONE work around for this problem. The Federation has a tech that allows them to make connections 1 beyond the tile limit. Though as more factions are added to the game, there is less chance the Federation may be in play. So this is a weak solution in my opinion, particularly if it is the Federation doing this tactic.
 
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Craig S.
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Well, if you a blocking a rival from connecting by maxing out a system's lane capacity with an open lane and leaving a ship there, it's perfectly valid. If the rival want to fix that then it's on them to destroy your ships in that lane and then abandon it and try to make the connection they want. It's not like once you do that you can just sit back and relax. How many ships do you want to commit to occupying a space lane? It all balances out.

I don't see anything wrong with the rules as written in this case.
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Craig S.
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I'm not sure how many times you have played, but from my experience, this isn't something you'll get to utilize effectively very often. A determined rival will find a way into your space long before the state of the board allows you to isolate yourself in this way.
 
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Nova Cat
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csouth154 wrote:
DayinDaLife wrote:
then convert your whites to Yellow and just farm the win. It doesn't take long to get any system to have 3 yellows and in most cases you have a few whites.


What the what? First of all...NO system can have three culture nodes. Some can't even have one, most can only have one, and none can have more than two.

In point of fact, there are no systems in the base game that can have more than one culture node.
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Craig S.
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csouth154 wrote:
I'm not sure how many times you have played, but from my experience, this isn't something you'll get to utilize effectively very often. A determined rival will find a way into your space long before the state of the board allows you to isolate yourself in this way.


Basically, here's my take on it. If you are able to use this strategy to completely isolate yourself and guarantee a win, then your two rivals squandered numerous earlier opportunities to contact your empire, and therefore deserve to lose.
 
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George
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The rules don't say if you can or can't move a space lane with another person's ship on it.

Imagine if Blue had ships on the lower right floating system. Red could certainly leave the floating red system and connect it to the blue floating system even if blue had ships on the floating system and the connected space lane. Right?

So since you can move lane+planet with enemies on it, it seems you should be able to move just the space lane with an enemy on it. But I still feel unsure about it.

(There is a similar diagram on pg 14 of the rules but it doesn't show enemy ships on the systems so it doesn't help much.

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Craig S.
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It's not about whether the floating lane can be moved if it has ships on it. It totally can. The issue is the maxing out of lane capacity of the system it is attached to in order to prevent connections to it from being made.
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George
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csouth154 wrote:
It's not about whether the floating lane can be moved if it has ships on it. It totally can. The issue is the maxing out of lane capacity of the system it is attached to in order to prevent connections to it from being made.


I thought they were related. If your enemy can move the space lane to make a connection, then it can't be used to prevent a connection.
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Craig S.
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soosy wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
It's not about whether the floating lane can be moved if it has ships on it. It totally can. The issue is the maxing out of lane capacity of the system it is attached to in order to prevent connections to it from being made.


I thought they were related. If your enemy can move the space lane to make a connection, then it can't be used to prevent a connection.


You are correct. That's true. I could be wrong but I believe the question revolves around the floating lane not being able to connect to anything else.

This leads to a question: in the picture above, could the red player move a ship from the red floating system and connect it to the maxed out system using the occupied floating blue lane? Or would the red player have to roll for a new lane?

It occurs to me that this thread is based on the assumption that the red player cannot connect the floating lane to the red floating system and I'm not at all sure that's the case...
 
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Nova Cat
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soosy wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
It's not about whether the floating lane can be moved if it has ships on it. It totally can. The issue is the maxing out of lane capacity of the system it is attached to in order to prevent connections to it from being made.


I thought they were related. If your enemy can move the space lane to make a connection, then it can't be used to prevent a connection.

It can. A space lane cannot be lifted while being moved (i.e., it cannot swing through fixed lanes), so placing a lane in the wrong direction can make it unusable. Also, a lane may be of an incompatible length.
 
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Nova Cat
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csouth154 wrote:


It occurs to me that this thread is based on the assumption that the red player cannot connect the floating lane to the red floating system and I'm not at all sure that's the case...

You are correct. The current player may freely move any or all floating systems and space lanes. In the illustrated example, a connection is not prevented.
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Angelus Seniores
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you can definitely still move a spacelane even with a rival ship on it so it doesnt prevent a connection, but physical limitations may indeed "block" it depending the situation.

dont forget there are ways around the limit, i think the feds can have a tech to connect 1 more spacelane than the max and also the ferengi.
 
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Craig S.
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Novacat wrote:
csouth154 wrote:


It occurs to me that this thread is based on the assumption that the red player cannot connect the floating lane to the red floating system and I'm not at all sure that's the case...

You are correct. The current player may freely move any or all floating systems and space lanes.


That's what I thought. Follow up question: does manipulation of the board have to done during a move command? Or could a player simply connect a floating lane to a floating system without spending a command?
 
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Nova Cat
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csouth154 wrote:
Novacat wrote:
csouth154 wrote:


It occurs to me that this thread is based on the assumption that the red player cannot connect the floating lane to the red floating system and I'm not at all sure that's the case...

You are correct. The current player may freely move any or all floating systems and space lanes.


That's what I thought. Follow up question: does manipulation of the board have to done during a move command? Or could a player simply connect a floating lane to a floating system without spending a command?

A connection can only be made during a move.
 
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