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Tavern Masters» Forums » Rules

Subject: Minimalist rulebook may be too simple rss

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A Swagman
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I was watching that Ant Labs playthrough and noticed what seems to be a significant rules mistake: they believed that you had to match all the Likes to keep a Patron, but in the Instructional video it shows you only need to match one. The online rulebook currently says you have to have a card a Patron likes to keep them. Maybe it should specify that you only have to match one card.

Barkeep cards, like the Dwarven Barkeep, activate their ability if you have two or more drink types in your tavern, but the rules don't state what a 'drink type' is. If you don't put it in the rules, lots of players here won't use it, no matter how clear it may seem.

One of the promo cards is the Goods Inspector. His ability is to move to another tavern instead of being discarded. It isn't clear how this plays in the solo mode.
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Peter Boctor
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ASwagman wrote:
I was watching that Ant Labs playthrough and noticed what seems to be a significant rules mistake: they believed that you had to match all the Likes to keep a Patron, but in the Instructional video it shows you only need to match one. The online rulebook currently says you have to have a card a Patron likes to keep them. Maybe it should specify that you only have to match one card.

Personally I found the usage of the word "a" to be satisfactorily clear in pointing out that you only need to match one "Like". To quote the rules directly:

Once each player is finished collecting the appropriate amount of Gold for the round, all Patrons in each player’s Tavern are discarded to the Patron discard pile, except any Patrons who “Like” a card in their player’s Tavern. (i.e. a Patron who “Likes Wenches” will remain in a Tavern which had any Wenches in play this round, such as an Elven Barmaid. Even if the “liked” card is discarded at the end of the round, the Patron who likes it will remain, although they will be discarded at the end of the player’s next round unless the player can play another card to the Tavern which the Patron likes.)

Note in the example provided it further stipulates that the example patron will be discarded "unless the player can play another card to the Tavern which the Patron likes." Again they use singular terms to define the amount of cards needed to be "Liked" (in this case "another"), which (for me at least) pretty much eliminates the ambiguity you're concerned about.

Maybe Ant Labs just read things a little too quickly.

ASwagman wrote:
Barkeep cards, like the Dwarven Barkeep, activate their ability if you have two or more drink types in your tavern, but the rules don't state what a 'drink type' is. If you don't put it in the rules, lots of players here won't use it, no matter how clear it may seem.

I'm unsure where you're getting your wording from, but from the image on the Kickstarter page the Dwarven Barkeep states:

Gain 1 each round if you have more than one drink in your tavern.

No indication of "drink types" or anything like that. From the way I read it he should trigger even if you only have two copies of the same drink. Were drink types an issue raised in another promotional video? Because I don't see any need for confusion from the card text itself.

ASwagman wrote:
One of the promo cards is the Goods Inspector. His ability is to move to another tavern instead of being discarded. It isn't clear how this plays in the solo mode.

I agree with you here, though it is a promotional card so I don't see any kind of errata as being very forthcoming.

It does state that it moves "to the player to your left", so I would rule that as there are no other players to move to it simply leaves the game (is discarded) at that point.

Got to say that despite the issues you raise I'm still quite excited for this game, and happy it's reached the necessary funding.
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A Swagman
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You're right, the Dwarven Barkeep doesn't use the word 'drink type', but the promo card "Drink-Slinging Maverick" does. So it may not be a problem.

As for Likes, I still think a lot of players are going to assume you need more than one because that's what they are used to "this AND this" meaning. My experience here is that players will creatively misinterpret rules to make games harder if at all possible, unless those rules are very explicit.
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Peter Boctor
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Promo cards strike again!

I guess whether or whether not it's a problem depends on whether or not one of the other 145 cards (200+ including Dirty Deeds) mentions it at all. DKG do explain in their solo play video that a drink type is defined as mead, ale, or wine, but that doesn't do players much good if they don't watch the video or buy the game commercially.

As for likes, I guess it's a case of ymmv. In my experience players are more likely to try to get away with as much as they can so it's more likely to go the other way. I see your point though, clarification certainly wouldn't hurt.

Hopefully the rulebook itself will be more specific than the site (possibly worth mentioning in comments?).
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Dann Christoffers
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Kountze
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Hey guys, you both bring up some great thoughts regarding the rules.

First, I need to apologize. I had a slightly more thorough version of the rules which I keep trying to publish on my website; however directly before the campaign I must have installed something that Muse doesn't like, because no matter how many times I try to upload, it fails somewhere mid-upload.

Regarding the "Likes", I had hoped that the constant use of the singular when describing the mechanic would be apparent, but it's something I can (and will) easily remedy by putting in an extra line!

In regards to the "Drink Types" you're absolutely right, this needs to be included. I do plan on giving the rules a thorough three- or four-times over when I'm setting up the final print files for the manufacturer. Last minute catches like this are invaluable, and I GREATLY appreciate them!

As to the Goods Inspector, in solo play, you are essentially the "player to your left", so yes, he would just stay in your Tavern, keeping an eye on things. I'll make sure to include a more detailed definition of things like "player to your left" as to how it affects solo play.

Thank you both for examining the rules so closely, every bit helps to make this the best game it can be! Even after playtesting this constantly for 3+ years, sending it off to other groups for blind playtesting, and bringing it around to the conventions, there are still some things that you just somehow miss or take for granted.
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