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Wilson St.James
Canada
Winona
Ontario
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Got the game in a trade. Loved it.
Then it started to require so much bookkeeping that I gave up on it altogether. I started playing the app and didn't get the same feeling one would with something more tangible, like cards (that's why I play board games in the first place).
Went onto my trade list. It's still there, but I am really very seriously reconsidering that because I had a thought about how to redeem the game for my purposes.
I play solo. My daughter tried to play the game with me but again, the bookkeeping drew her away. I could see the boredom in her eyes even though she loves the thematic play.
So as a soloist I needed a minimum of bookeeping and it occurred to me to simply remove all the complex characters. Don't even try to use them because they just frustrate me and turn me off the game as a whole. For now, it seems that removing the complex villains is enough. Complexity in the heroes seems easier to deal with.
So no more Citizen Dawn. No more whomever.
Since I did this purge I have played twice and am loving it again. I don't know if I'll ever take Citizen Dawn out of mothballs or not, but for the time being I can play and enjoy this game again.

If anyone wants to encourage my philosophy then I do have a question; does villain "difficulty" translate to "complexity"? Or are the two mutually exclusive?

Put another way, if anyone wants to identify decks (villain, hero or environment) that require extensive bookkeeping so that I can avoid them, please feel free. I'd appreciate your opinions.
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Fruit Eating Bear
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For the most part yes, difficulty = complexity. I've got every non-promo Sentinels item and there's a few I won't play in the physical version - some are villains and some are heroes. I love the game, I really do, but as you say the bookkeeping's a chore, even with aid tokens or apps to keep things clean.

In fairness, there's a few on the app I try to avoid, too, unless they're in the weekly one shots. It gets a bit dispiriting getting beaten up at the end of every villain turn from 15 different directions.
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Chris Laudermilk
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There's a few apps for mobile devices that help handle the bookkeeping. I have played using one since my first game and that has made it not too bad. Tokens are usually out mainly as visual reminders.

The difficulty for villains I think is a combination of complexity and how hard they are to beat.
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Bill Stull
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Villain difficulty and complexity don't always go hand in hand. Progeny is really straight forward but is higher on the difficulty range. Same goes for Plague Rat.
I've played the game solo with the cards and only the team villains format and Kaargra Warfang are out of question for me to play. In the app is the only place I'd face them solo.
Glad to hear you're getting enjoyment out of the game and once you get into the flow of things taking on more complex villains becomes easier.
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Wilson St.James
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Winona
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Great help all! Thank you for the quick responses and for the encouragement. It's good to know that I am not alone in my thinking.
Hate to see people miss out on this fun game because they are intimidated by it (as I was).

Sonvar wrote:
Villain difficulty and complexity don't always go hand in hand. Progeny is really straight forward but is higher on the difficulty range. Same goes for Plague Rat.
I've played the game solo with the cards and only the team villains format and Kaargra Warfang are out of question for me to play. In the app is the only place I'd face them solo.
Glad to hear you're getting enjoyment out of the game and once you get into the flow of things taking on more complex villains becomes easier.


This is really helpful.
I don't want to avoid Progeny just because he is difficult. I would only avoid that villain if he were complex. You've exactly caught the spirit of my thread.

Any other similar suggestions are most welcome.
 
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Dániel Lányi
Hungary
Budapest
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One thing that really helped us with bookkeeping is this:

boardgamegeek.com/thread/1516897/hero-minion-villain-health-...

No more changing tokens and you can instantly see who has most/least HP. I strongly suggest it.
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Rob Rob
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Ft. Lauderdale
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I agree, tracking the modifiers is (for me) the one negative in an otherwise stellar gaming experience.

We've found something which helps alleviate the hassle when determining the "highest/lowest" requirements. Most people place cumulative damage tokens on a card and then have to constantly do mental math when deciding high/low; we place the card's max HP on the card to start and subtract damage. This lets us visualize current HP value on the fly.
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Markus
Finland
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There are a few villains I generally avoid unless I really want to crunch stuff. They are Kaargra Warfang, Spite, The Ennead and Wager Master.
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Alexander Mercer
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Matriach is the only one I really don't like playing. I've had a few occasions where she has had pretty much all her birds out and it's just a headache.

Playing with a child there are a few that are straightforward, Baron Blade and Omnitron have minimal complexity.
 
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Dave Horn
United States
Coeur d Alene
Idaho
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Highly recommend Sentinels Sidekick to anyone not liking the bookkeeping. Its the only way to play the cardboard version as far as I am concerned. Its top notch and made by the same devs who made the app implementation of the game.
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Chris Laudermilk
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I prefer SotM Commander. Not as pretty, but more flexible and can take fan-generated custom decks.
 
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David Doyen
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It's on my trade list as well. I really wish there was a game state tracker that addressed all of the upkeep issues. I don't like the sidekick app. The tokens would be sufficient if there were more of them for all of the damage types and immunities. Also a simple symbol or just border color on the cards to signify start and end of turn events would have been really helpful. In fact, I may do that to my cards.
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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This might help with that--it has for me. The Start of Turn/End of Turn markers are the most useful in the pack.

Sentinels of the Multiverse: Extra Token Pack
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Atomic Robo
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Start of Turn/End of Turn markers help with a lot of stuff.

Iron Legacy is difficult but not necessarily complex, if you're using your tokens.

Dawn is middle-ish on the complexity side. I would avoid Matriarch, Miss Information, Wager Master, La Capitan, Kismet and Infinitor. (Though some of these fights obviously have fewer moving parts and aren't necessarily bad.)

Absolute Zero can be tricky to keep track of on the Hero side. Nightmist is right out. Unity and Captain Cosmic both have a lot of minion cards in play and can be a bear to track down.

As for advice on play, I'd suggest mastering 4 player games. 3 player games have fewer pieces in the air, but they also tend to be much harder in my experience. 4 player games or eventually 5 player tends to give you a real sense of a super hero team actually going to work.


Oh and for environments-unless I'm feeling on the ball-I avoid The Block, Enclave of the Endlings, Omnitron IV and Time Cataclysm. All of them have too many moving pieces for me. (Cards that modify lots of stuff globally or count cards of certain types and things of that nature.)
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Wilson St.James
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Winona
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How about Chokepoint? She at the local shop so I could get her if you don't think she's too much bookkeeping. Recommended or no?
 
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Andrew Arenson
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Indiana
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theclergy wrote:
How about Chokepoint? She at the local shop so I could get her if you don't think she's too much bookkeeping. Recommended or no?


Chokepoint is one of the easiest villains to defeat. I don't recall her requiring a lot of tracking of effects, but I'll admit I've only fought her a few times.
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Take Walker
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Ohio
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Both her levels of complexity and difficulty are extremely low. She's good if you want to just beat up on a villain while trying out something new.
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Wilson St.James
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Winona
Ontario
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TakeWalker wrote:
Both her levels of complexity and difficulty are extremely low. She's good if you want to just beat up on a villain while trying out something new.

Absolutely!
laugh

Edit to add:
Thinking about what you said. She and others like her might be really good for use with fewer heroes, say three, because that inherently makes the game have less bookkeeping. In fact, that might be a good general "strategy" to remove excess bookkeeping ("use three heroes against easier villains").
 
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