$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 116.93

7,103 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
44.8% of Goal | left

Support:

Jack Reilly
United States
flag msg tools
Hey guys, finally got my base set sleeved, organized, and played 4 games Friday night. I made a couple mistakes, but fixed them once I caught them. One thing I noticed, minus Loki and some of the schemes (Legacy Virus), the base set is pretty easy. What are some ways to up the difficulty? I've heard Dark City adds a nice level of difficulty to it, so that's on my list, but how are the Paint the Town Red Masterminds? That expansion is on my list because I love Mysterio, Carnage, and the whole Spider universe.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan C
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
All the expansions add difficulty, compared to the relative cakewalk of the core set. As you mentioned, Dark City and Paint are good challenges. I'd also add Secret Wars because of King Hyperion alone. It's all fun.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ducko Kaiju
United States
Davis
California
flag msg tools
mbmb
Carnage is brutal. Feast is not fun - in a challenging way.

Mysterio is good, but can be annoying - because you sometimes defeat his "illusions" and not him.

Apocalypse from Dark City is difficult; but fun nonetheless. Not only does his Villain group get +2; his Master Strike makes it impossible to attack him that turn.

Mephisto is a Mastermind I have not been able to defeat with randomizer - if I got to pick the heroes; I am sure I can beat him. For now, I will take my licks from him.

Hyperion (Secret Wars) makes me fear every draw from the villain deck if there is even 2 or 3 villain in the city.

Galactus... if you can get the Fantastic Four set; Galactus and all the heroes are great in this game. Galactus destroys city spaces and makes the game feel like the world is ending.

Last, but not the weakest - Thanos is a great Mastermind. With the Infinity Gems (and the whole team from Guardians of the Galaxy in the set), you will have a good time collecting the Gems and hopefully not go mad if you have too much power.

Start with Dark City, then Guardians of the Galaxy, then Paint the Town Red; if you want more than start doing the big expansion: Civil War, Secret War, Secret War V2... etc.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Gordy
United States
Eden Prairie
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
All expansions increase the level of difficulty from the core set. Thus get which one has heros / themes that you like.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamie
United States
flag msg tools
I played a pure Civil War game the other night and we had our asses handed to us. The scheme was Epic Super Hero Civil War. That coupled with Yellowjacket appearing early and fortifying the Heroes stack, which resulted in all of our Heroes legendary cards being KOed before we could buy them, and we were screwed.

By the end of the game we just could not generate enough strike to attack Authoritarian Iron Man, and the hero deck ran out thanks to the scheme.

I think the game has gotten a lot harder in general since the core game release.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
If you like the Spiderverse, get Paint the Town Red. It's personally one of my least favorite expansions, but that's because I tend to focus on Hero synergy. I've come to regard 2-cost decks as the Slivers of Legendary---but to each his own!

As an expansion, PTTR adds about as much difficulty as any other expansion in terms of schemes, though they aren't particularly memorable in terms of gameplay. (There's a Clone Saga scheme, I believe, it that interests you. Here's the complete spoiler list.) It's also a must-have if you want to play with Spider-Man from the base set, as it adds Symbiote Spider Man.

Alternatively, check out Secret Wars vol. 1 (for Ultimate Spider-Man and Sidekicks) or Secret Wars Vol. 2 (for Spider-Gwen and Silk) or even Civil War (for Special Sidekicks and the Avengers-affiliated Peter Parker.)

Heroes base set: Best base set;
Dark City: Best big box, all-around;
Fantastic Four: Best small box, all-around;
Paint the Town Red: Has best alternate 2-cost Hero (Symbiote Spider-Man), also adds Moon Knight (handy for Tech/Instinct triggers);
Guardians of the Galaxy: Adds artifacts, one of the best mechanics, but Heroes tend to be OP;
Villains base set: Tied for best new mechanics, outright wins best "Masterminds";
Fear Itself: Tied for best new mechanics;
Captain America: Best schemes;
Secret Wars Vol. 1 Best new setup card deck (Sidekicks) and contains more Masterminds;
Secret Wars Vol. 2 Has Beast and more Masterminds;
Civil War: Has best new Henchmen in a long while. Also, has more Masterminds;
Deadpool: It's funny? Excessive Violence and Revenge are pretty sweet mechanics, too.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Steele
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
You love Carnage, Mysterio, & Spider-Man stuff in general. That means you want PtTR. Everything adds to difficulty, which is the other thing you want. Personally, I love Villains. I should mention that half the allies in Villains are in the Sinister 6, so you'll probably go crazy over that. Spider-Man is also properly annoying as an adversary in all his forms: Spider-Friend, The Mighty, and Superhuman Registration Act (might have the name wrong there).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ducko Kaiju
United States
Davis
California
flag msg tools
mbmb
In the meantime; you can nerf the current masterminds: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1365572/harder-base-game-ma...

There are a few other recommended modifications you can do to make it a little harder. Be careful when exploring customs... it can be a rabbit hole if you get addicted.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ducko Kaiju
United States
Davis
California
flag msg tools
mbmb
TheUbiquitous wrote:

Fear Itself: Tied for best new mechanics;


I almost forgot; Uru-Ironman and The Mighty... this guy will really make you think before attacking.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Baier
United States
Grand Forks
North Dakota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
My randomizer app once set us up against Zombie Green Goblin and the Clone Saga Scheme.

It destroyed us, in the first 15 minutes.

Designer Devin Low responded in a facebook thread regarding that session, saying "I agree with you - Zombie GG is one of toughest masterminds." [2015-09-04 Legendary Deck Building Game page]
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reilly
United States
flag msg tools
Thanks for the replies, guys. I think I'm going PttR because I found a great deal on it, then Dark City just for the wealth of options it adds.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reilly
United States
flag msg tools
ducko wrote:
In the meantime; you can nerf the current masterminds: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1365572/harder-base-game-ma...

There are a few other recommended modifications you can do to make it a little harder. Be careful when exploring customs... it can be a rabbit hole if you get addicted.


Oh trust me, I know. I've seen all the custom expansions and schemes you guys put up and it gets me super excited
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jem
France
flag msg tools
The Ubiquitous's write up is excellent.

All I would add is that PTTR adds a very different way to think about your turn order with a lot of Wall-Crawl heroes and Feast enemies available. If you've ever felt that playing a turn in Legendary is a simple case of playing all your cards in a vaguely optimal order then recruiting, then attacking enemies, PTTR will make you think hard about turn order.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Itai Rosenbaum
Israel
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mysterio gets a bad rep. He's one of my favorite Masterminds to play against (he's also one of my favorite Spidey villain, but that's beside the point).

The thing about Mysterio is that he's not tough. He's a measley 7 fight. That's nothing compared to the Thanoses and the Galactasuseses out there. But he is oh-so-annoying. Every time you beat him - poof, illusion. It's super thematic, it's frustrating as all hell, but in a good way. Mysterio is proof that you don't need to slap a high fight value on a Mastermind for it to be a challenge.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reilly
United States
flag msg tools
IronSyndicate wrote:
Mysterio gets a bad rep. He's one of my favorite Masterminds to play against (he's also one of my favorite Spidey villain, but that's beside the point).

The thing about Mysterio is that he's not tough. He's a measley 7 fight. That's nothing compared to the Thanoses and the Galactasuseses out there. But he is oh-so-annoying. Every time you beat him - poof, illusion. It's super thematic, it's frustrating as all hell, but in a good way. Mysterio is proof that you don't need to slap a high fight value on a Mastermind for it to be a challenge.


That's exactly why I want him and I love his card! He totally fits that, especially the 90's Amazing Spider-Man episodes where Spidey spends 15 minutes swinging at illusions. It's such a great design for him, and totally fits his character.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jem
France
flag msg tools
IronSyndicate wrote:
Mysterio gets a bad rep. He's one of my favorite Masterminds to play against (he's also one of my favorite Spidey villain, but that's beside the point).

Mysterio is a good mastermind. A pain when it comes to all the death-clock schemes, certainly, and an interesting if slightly lazy option for 5 player games with a controllable scheme like Killbots.

IMHO it's not that Mysterio is bad, it's that Wall-Crawl and Feast really change the way that Legendary works and teach lazy players to really concentrate on exactly what order they are doing things, rather than just play cards --> recruit heroes --> attack enemies. Mysterio brings little new and (much as I hate the phrase) game-changing to Legendary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Hatinen
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mb
I'll add my voice to whoever praised Ubiquitous' write up on what is good of each set. Also, you should get whatever set or sets correspond to what characters you and your players are interested in.

I should warn about one thing, however, and that's that Dark City actually seems to make the game easier. Apocalypse is a monumental pain in the ass and all the Masterminds are tougher than what you saw in the Base Set, but there was a thread where some people kept their win and loss records from before versus after adding Dark City, and the win ratios went up for every single thing in the Base Set. I didn't separate my win and loss records from before versus after getting it, but I do recall that before I got expansions, there were some Schemes I considered almost impossible (Superhero Civil War and Legacy Virus) that remain tough, but are not horrifying challenges.

I'll check my subscriptions link and edit this post with a link to that discussion if I can find it.

Edits: I found it but discovered I had forgotten some of the specifics about the difficulty. This is the thread where it's outright discussed, but the amount of data is pretty small

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/18313767#18313767

While in this thread, there's a lot more games played and therefore better data, but the original poster doesn't do a go job of formatting the data (later people do a better job of presenting their results). However, the fact remains that Base Set tough stuff gets easier after including Dark City and the easy stuff gets really easy

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19370861#19370861

Note: It's two edits to post both links.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
There definitely is a bit of power creep as they go on. However, the experience of playing Dark City is better in lots of soft ways (like the art), the schemes are generally more interesting, and the Hero cards have more interesting mechanics, the special bystanders are the best special bystanders, &c.

Still, power creep! What helps, I think, is that the last Masterminds who seem to reliably give you stuff for beating them were in the base set. I haven't checked. It's more tense when they're taking stuff away from you or cursing you for beating them, IMO, as happens with later sets.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reilly
United States
flag msg tools
TheUbiquitous wrote:
There definitely is a bit of power creep as they go on. However, the experience of playing Dark City is better in lots of soft ways (like the art), the schemes are generally more interesting, and the Hero cards have more interesting mechanics, the special bystanders are the best special bystanders, &c.

Still, power creep! What helps, I think, is that the last Masterminds who seem to reliably give you stuff for beating them were in the base set. I haven't checked. It's more tense when they're taking stuff away from you or cursing you for beating them, IMO, as happens with later sets.


Ubiquitous, A) that was a great breakdown of the expansions, I really appreciate it B) I agree, as nice as that extra attack/recruit is for beating a Mastermind (or Dr. Doom giving you a whole nother turn, what?!?), it does feel inconsistent, and makes them easier to beat.

Heck, even the KO cards feels fair, because sure you're trashing bad cards, but you run the risk of guys like Carnage skimming your deck down to nothing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Worse, they could kill something you just recruited that turn---or that rare you've been hoping to come up on the next! That's the big difference. Wall-Crawl is a good enough keyword, but mostly it shines in the mind game against Feast.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jem
France
flag msg tools
Jreilly89 wrote:
TheUbiquitous wrote:
There definitely is a bit of power creep as they go on. However, the experience of playing Dark City is better in lots of soft ways (like the art), the schemes are generally more interesting, and the Hero cards have more interesting mechanics, the special bystanders are the best special bystanders, &c.

Still, power creep! What helps, I think, is that the last Masterminds who seem to reliably give you stuff for beating them were in the base set. I haven't checked. It's more tense when they're taking stuff away from you or cursing you for beating them, IMO, as happens with later sets.


Ubiquitous, A) that was a great breakdown of the expansions, I really appreciate it B) I agree, as nice as that extra attack/recruit is for beating a Mastermind (or Dr. Doom giving you a whole nother turn, what?!?), it does feel inconsistent, and makes them easier to beat.

Heck, even the KO cards feels fair, because sure you're trashing bad cards, but you run the risk of guys like Carnage skimming your deck down to nothing.

There are perception differences to mastermind fight effects - playing the base set, I very quickly got the impression that the fight effects should be rewards for kicking the mastermind in the teeth. They retreat and live to fight another day, but your heroes have won that little tussle and should be rewarded for it. Others appreciate that attacking the mastermind is a gamble and puts you in danger of walking into a trap of sorts. The community disagrees on this issue (although mostly, the community disagrees with me) but personally I'd rather high-attack MMs with painful masterstrikes but who don't punish you for giving them a bloody nose.

That said, I'm aware that the downside to a mastermind that rewards you for hitting them is that the first player to get an attack in tends to accelerate away from their rivals.
TheUbiquitous wrote:
Worse, they could kill something you just recruited that turn---or that rare you've been hoping to come up on the next! That's the big difference. Wall-Crawl is a good enough keyword, but mostly it shines in the mind game against Feast.

I love the combination of Wall-Crawl and the cards that use it, as quite a few of them do work off and manipulate the top card of your deck - not to mention that it encourages playing a few cards and recruiting before popping all your "draw a card" options.
3 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Reilly
United States
flag msg tools
Jemjar wrote:

There are perception differences to mastermind fight effects - playing the base set, I very quickly got the impression that the fight effects should be rewards for kicking the mastermind in the teeth. They retreat and live to fight another day, but your heroes have won that little tussle and should be rewarded for it. Others appreciate that attacking the mastermind is a gamble and puts you in danger of walking into a trap of sorts. The community disagrees on this issue (although mostly, the community disagrees with me) but personally I'd rather high-attack MMs with painful masterstrikes but who don't punish you for giving them a bloody nose.

That said, I'm aware that the downside to a mastermind that rewards you for hitting them is that the first player to get an attack in tends to accelerate away from their rivals.
[q="TheUbiquitous"]Worse, they could kill something you just recruited that turn---or that rare you've been hoping to come up on the next! That's the big difference. Wall-Crawl is a good enough keyword, but mostly it shines in the mind game against Feast.


Agreed. I see both sides, as on the one hand, it makes more sense thematically to me have the Mastermind be dangerous, but on the other, it's a nice breather. That being said, I played a solo game, and Red Skull having some forgiving tactics was the only reason I won

Quote:
I love the combination of Wall-Crawl and the cards that use it, as quite a few of them do work off and manipulate the top card of your deck - not to mention that it encourages playing a few cards and recruiting before popping all your "draw a card" options.


Definitely, I could see Wall-Crawl and Gambit playing nicely off each other.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jem
France
flag msg tools
Jreilly89 wrote:
Jemjar wrote:
I love the combination of Wall-Crawl and the cards that use it, as quite a few of them do work off and manipulate the top card of your deck - not to mention that it encourages playing a few cards and recruiting before popping all your "draw a card" options.


Definitely, I could see Wall-Crawl and Gambit playing nicely off each other.

Anyone with card draw is good, but Gambit plays well with some of the Spider-team and Daredevil becomes amazing when you can factor wall-crawl into using him.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh Worley
United States
St Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
TheUbiquitous wrote:
What helps, I think, is that the last Masterminds who seem to reliably give you stuff for beating them were in the base set.


Hyperion's Tactics help you out, but if he's in the city then they also get shuffled back into the Tactics pile, so he only kinda sorta helps you out?

Other than Hyperion though, I can't think of one off the top of my head either that's not from the base set.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Hatinen
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mb
Keeper of Souls gives you one of Thanos' bound souls, but also grabs a card from each other player.

Mysterio has a Tactic that gives you Bystanders equal to the number of Tactics left in his stack, and another giving you Recruit equal to that number.

Mole Man has two Tactics. One gives you 6 Attack that can only be used against a foe in the Streets, and another with 6 Recruit that can only be used on whatever HQ card is below the Streets.

Spider Queen has one that lets you get a free Spider Friend Hero.

Nimrod has a Tactic that gives you the next card in the Hero Deck if you guessed it had Recruit or Attack. Another Tactic of his gives you the next card of your deck if you knew what icon it had, and then you repeat the process.

After the base set, most Tactics hurt the players, but it wasn't all of them. Galactus has lots of ways to benefit whoever beats him up.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.