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A Feast for Odin» Forums » Rules

Subject: When do mountain tiles clear? rss

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Paul Grogan
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The rules on page 11 are unclear.

• In this phase, remove the leftmost building resource (i.e. closest
to the arrow) from each face-up mountain strip and return it to
the general supply.
If all spaces but the last “2 silver” space are empty, remove the
two silver and the entire mountain strip.


This could be read two ways.
1. After you have removed the resource, if now there is only 2 silver left, remove that silve and the tile.
2. The second sentence is just clarifying. If there was only the 2 silver left, you remove it because it is the leftmost resource, and then you remove the tile.

I've spoken to a few people and people are interpreting it different ways. What is the best way to get an official answer?
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Interpretation 2 is correct. You remove exactly one resource from each mountain strip. You then remove the mountain strip if it is empty.

This is confirmed by Frank Heeren's official answer here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1647297/updating-mountain-s...

It is also confirmed by the official errata and FAQ: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/138082/errata-and-faq-1st...


Bear in mind you can only draw resources from the left side of strips, so the last resource to be removed is always the 2 silver piece.
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Paul Grogan
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Cool. Thanks. Hadn't seen 1.2 of the FAQ.
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Rollo Tomosi
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So, if, when mountain tiles clear we replace with one-that's always going to be 1 to 1...but the rules specifically state that there is a way for there to be more mountain tiles than the game starts with-can someone explain that to me?
 
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Rich P
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Dark_Knight wrote:
So, if, when mountain tiles clear we replace with one-that's always going to be 1 to 1...but the rules specifically state that there is a way for there to be more mountain tiles than the game starts with-can someone explain that to me?


You always add a new mountain strip every round regardless.
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woodnoggin wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
So, if, when mountain tiles clear we replace with one-that's always going to be 1 to 1...but the rules specifically state that there is a way for there to be more mountain tiles than the game starts with-can someone explain that to me?


You always add a new mountain strip every round regardless.

Yep. The steps are:

1. Remove the leftmost building resource from each strip
2. If any strips are now empty, remove them
3. Turn a new strip face up and fill it with resources
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Rollo Tomosi
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I don't get that from reading my rules (English, Z-Man) and Uwe typically makes things ABUNDANTLY clear. My rules (Page 11, "Phase 11") says "IF" all spaces (but last) are empty to remove the board from the game "THEN" turn a new mountain strip face-up.

Nothing states that a new strip is placed 'regardless.'


woodnoggin wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
So, if, when mountain tiles clear we replace with one-that's always going to be 1 to 1...but the rules specifically state that there is a way for there to be more mountain tiles than the game starts with-can someone explain that to me?


You always add a new mountain strip every round regardless.
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Jonas Vanschooren
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Dark_Knight wrote:
I don't get that from reading my rules (English, Z-Man) and Uwe typically makes things ABUNDANTLY clear. My rules (Page 11, "Phase 11") says "IF" all spaces (but last) are empty to remove the board from the game "THEN" turn a new mountain strip face-up.

Nothing states that a new strip is placed 'regardless.'


woodnoggin wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
So, if, when mountain tiles clear we replace with one-that's always going to be 1 to 1...but the rules specifically state that there is a way for there to be more mountain tiles than the game starts with-can someone explain that to me?


You always add a new mountain strip every round regardless.

The if is still a part of the previous thing where it said to remove 1 good from every tile if there is and empty tIle remove it. Then place a new tile and fill it.
Dutch rules are very clear on this.
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I really think a lot of the confusion comes from the layout on the page and the bullet points. In the English rules, for example:


There's a bullet point for removing the leftmost building resource. This is thing 1.

Then, there's a NON-bullet-point sentence which says what happens in one particular case in the first bullet.


Moving on, there's a bullet point that you do next. This bullet point says to turn a new mountain strip face up.


Finally, there's a bullet point about the 4-player game. This just clarifies round 7.
 
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Paul Grogan
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I am 99.9% sure you add a new mountain strip each round (except for round 7 in a 4-player game because there are none left)
 
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Rollo Tomosi
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I'm not sure about this interpretation-and again, being Uwe's "biggest fan" I know that he usually goes overboard on explaining things and clarity.

If I have time today I will look at other sections of the rulebook and see if the 'bullet point only' theory holds throughout.

In any event-if what you are saying is correct-then we can have situations where we have FEWER mountain tiles than the beginning of the game (for example both of the originals get exhausted in Round 1 and then just the single 'Round 2' replacement)-and that case is not mentioned either.....



GAFBlizzard wrote:
I really think a lot of the confusion comes from the layout on the page and the bullet points. In the English rules, for example:


There's a bullet point for removing the leftmost building resource. This is thing 1.

Then, there's a NON-bullet-point sentence which says what happens in one particular case in the first bullet.


Moving on, there's a bullet point that you do next. This bullet point says to turn a new mountain strip face up.


Finally, there's a bullet point about the 4-player game. This just clarifies round 7.
 
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Paul Grogan
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Dark_Knight wrote:
I'm not sure about this interpretation-and again, being Uwe's "biggest fan" I know that he usually goes overboard on explaining things and clarity.

If I have time today I will look at other sections of the rulebook and see if the 'bullet point only' theory holds throughout.

The best thing to do would be to get an official answer from Frank Heeren. Otherwise, we're all just guessing and interpreting things in a different way.
 
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Dark_Knight wrote:
In any event-if what you are saying is correct-then we can have situations where we have FEWER mountain tiles than the beginning of the game (for example both of the originals get exhausted in Round 1 and then just the single 'Round 2' replacement)-and that case is not mentioned either.....

I'll message Frank anyway so we can put this to bed, but I'm 99% certain the consensus is correct. A couple more points:

1. There can be fewer mountain tiles than the beginning of the game, but this case is not mentioned -- true, but I don't see why that matters. It's just something that can happen which doesn't hurt anything.

2. The final part of Phase 11 states "In the 4-player long game, there are not enough mountain strips for all 7 rounds." It does NOT say, "You may run out in the 4-player game". It says there are not enough. This could only be the case if you flipped one every round.
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Rollo Tomosi
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Your point #2 is probably the best argument in favor of the 1-mountain-tile-per-round regardless PoV.
 
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Rollo Tomosi
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If you are going to be in contact with someone who (allegedly) knows the answer-might as well ask if a new tile is added whether or not a new tile is laid due to exhausting resources.

For example-if, at the end of Round 1, the 2 original tiles are depleted does that mean that we add 3 tiles (one for each of the depleteds plus the new one for Round 2) or just 1 "no matter what."

GAFBlizzard wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
In any event-if what you are saying is correct-then we can have situations where we have FEWER mountain tiles than the beginning of the game (for example both of the originals get exhausted in Round 1 and then just the single 'Round 2' replacement)-and that case is not mentioned either.....

I'll message Frank anyway so we can put this to bed, but I'm 99% certain the consensus is correct. A couple more points:

1. There can be fewer mountain tiles than the beginning of the game, but this case is not mentioned -- true, but I don't see why that matters. It's just something that can happen which doesn't hurt anything.

2. The final part of Phase 11 states "In the 4-player long game, there are not enough mountain strips for all 7 rounds." It does NOT say, "You may run out in the 4-player game". It says there are not enough. This could only be the case if you flipped one every round.
 
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Jonas Vanschooren
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It's just one no matter what.
 
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Rollo Tomosi
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If it were really that simple-why didn't they just say it?

Spukky wrote:
It's just one no matter what.
 
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Bryan Gerding
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Dark_Knight wrote:
If it were really that simple-why didn't they just say it?

Spukky wrote:
It's just one no matter what.


Seriously! Been getting this wrong too! So poorly worded, I was playing OP's option 1
 
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Rollo Tomosi
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If I am understanding all of the correct(ed) input from this thread-the entirety of Phase 11 should simply read:

-If there are any Mountain Tiles with 2 resources (or fewer) remove the tile from the game, otherwise just remove the left-most resource on each tile.

-Flip and populate a new Mountain Tile.
 
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Rich P
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Dark_Knight wrote:
If I am understanding all of the correct(ed) input from this thread-the entirety of Phase 11 should simply read:

-If there are any Mountain Tiles with 2 resources (or fewer) remove them from the game.

-Flip and populate a new Mountain Tile.


We've been playing it as:

1) Remove the leftmost item from each mountain strip. If this leaves a strip empty, discard it.

2) Add a new mountain strip and fill it with the items pictured on it.
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Grant
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Dark_Knight wrote:
If I am understanding all of the correct(ed) input from this thread-the entirety of Phase 11 should simply read:

-If there are any Mountain Tiles with 2 resources (or fewer) remove them from the game.

No, you only remove a SINGLE resource from each strip. If that was the last one (a two-silver token), then remove it from the game.
 
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woodnoggin wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
If I am understanding all of the correct(ed) input from this thread-the entirety of Phase 11 should simply read:

-If there are any Mountain Tiles with 2 resources (or fewer) remove them from the game.

-Flip and populate a new Mountain Tile.


We've been playing it as:

1) Remove the leftmost item from each mountain strip. If this leaves a strip empty, discard it.

2) Add a new mountain strip and fill it with the items pictured on it.


This should get published as errata.

Some of the rules are quite verbose, probably with good intent. In this case, verbosity lead to several misconceptions during or after translation.
 
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Grant
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Mondkalb123 wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
If I am understanding all of the correct(ed) input from this thread-the entirety of Phase 11 should simply read:

-If there are any Mountain Tiles with 2 resources (or fewer) remove them from the game.

-Flip and populate a new Mountain Tile.


We've been playing it as:

1) Remove the leftmost item from each mountain strip. If this leaves a strip empty, discard it.

2) Add a new mountain strip and fill it with the items pictured on it.


This should get published as errata.

Some of the rules are quite verbose, probably with good intent. In this case, verbosity lead to several misconceptions during or after translation.

The first point has already been published in the "Clarifications and Errata" document available in the files section.

The second point, about always adding exactly one new strip regardless of the number that may or may not have been depleted, is already perfectly clear in the rules.
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Frank Heeren
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PaulGrogan wrote:
I am 99.9% sure you add a new mountain strip each round (except for round 7 in a 4-player game because there are none left)

That is right. You always add a new mountain strip every round regardless.
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Rollo Tomosi
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When 10 different members of BGG are taking 9 days and a number of viewpoints discussing what is meant by the section-I don't understand how you can say "it is perfectly clear."

grant5 wrote:
Mondkalb123 wrote:
woodnoggin wrote:
Dark_Knight wrote:
If I am understanding all of the correct(ed) input from this thread-the entirety of Phase 11 should simply read:

-If there are any Mountain Tiles with 2 resources (or fewer) remove them from the game.

-Flip and populate a new Mountain Tile.


We've been playing it as:

1) Remove the leftmost item from each mountain strip. If this leaves a strip empty, discard it.

2) Add a new mountain strip and fill it with the items pictured on it.


This should get published as errata. :)

Some of the rules are quite verbose, probably with good intent. In this case, verbosity lead to several misconceptions during or after translation. ;)

The first point has already been published in the "Clarifications and Errata" document available in the files section.

The second point, about always adding exactly one new strip regardless of the number that may or may not have been depleted, is already perfectly clear in the rules.
 
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