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Great Western Trail» Forums » Rules

Subject: Move cattleman with objective card before B rss

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Fridjof B
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Rules says the objective cards also can be played before performing any one action in phase B.
Example: My objective card has the "Move cattleman 3 steps" immediate action. I choose to play it either before any phase B action, or after the first phase B action (given there is more than one on the tile).
Rules says I am not allowed to use the action on which I stop with the "Move cattleman 3 steps" immediate action.
Must I forfeit the rest of my phase B actions on the original tile (since I moved away from it)?
 
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Axel
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German rulebook says before or after performing an action. So you're not allowed to play the card during an action or when you are in Phase C.

So you can do all the actions than play your card and move.
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Fridjof B
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ar147 wrote:
German rulebook says before or after performing an action. So you're not allowed to play the card during an action or when you are in Phase C.

So you can do all the actions than play your card and move.

But if my man stands on a tile with two possible actions, in phase B I would eventually carry them both out. They are described as actionS, so I could play an objective card between the two actions from what I understand.
 
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greetingsfrombergen wrote:
They are described as actionS, so I could play an objective card between the two actions from what I understand.


Yes, it specifically says in the rulebook that you can play an objective card before or after any building action. However, if you move away from a building then of course you can't take any further actions at that building. What I don't understand is why you can't just take all actions at the building and then play the objective card that allows you to move forward? Could you at least describe a situation where the order of operation matters? If not then what are we talking about here???
 
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Fridjof B
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verandi wrote:
greetingsfrombergen wrote:
They are described as actionS, so I could play an objective card between the two actions from what I understand.


Yes, it specifically says in the rulebook that you can play an objective card before or after any building action. However, if you move away from a building then of course you can't take any further actions at that building. What I don't understand is why you can't just take all actions at the building and then play the objective card that allows you to move forward? Could you at least describe a situation where the order of operation matters? If not then what are we talking about here???


Right, good call. Some buildings have a "move cattleman 1 step and perform that tiles actions". So it depends where you start from. Say, if I want to do the first action on one building, move 3 steps with an immediate action, do the second action (from the original building) which is a move 1 step and perform. So it matters to know if that second action is forfeit if I moved away.
 
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greetingsfrombergen wrote:

Right, good call. Some buildings have a "move cattleman 1 step and perform that tiles actions".


Oh, I thought we were talking about playing the objective card that allows you to move three spaces; that one specifically allows only movement and not taking any further actions.

Regarding the building action that lets you move and perform actions, the rulebook says:

"On the newly reached location, perform phase B again."

This strongly implies that the previous phase B is finished, and thus you cannot perform further actions from the building that you came from.
 
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Nikolas Co
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greetingsfrombergen wrote:
verandi wrote:
greetingsfrombergen wrote:
They are described as actionS, so I could play an objective card between the two actions from what I understand.
Yes, it specifically says in the rulebook that you can play an objective card before or after any building action.
Importantly, the objective card doesn't allow you to perform actions where you stop (pg 15).

I note that, if you used the objective card to move to Kansas City, there might be a conflict between:
* Can't action perform actions (I.e. proceed to phase C)
* Must stop at Kansas City in phase A of you next turn
* Must move from your current location in phase A
Fortunately, the rules forbid you from using the objective card to move to Kansas City (also pg 15)
greetingsfrombergen wrote:
verandi wrote:
However, if you move away from a building then of course you can't take any further actions at that building. What I don't understand is why you can't just take all actions at the building and then play the objective card that allows you to move forward? Could you at least describe a situation where the order of operation matters? If not then what are we talking about here???
Right, good call. Some buildings have a "move cattleman 1 step and perform that tiles actions". So it depends where you start from. Say, if I want to do the first action on one building, move 3 steps with an immediate action, do the second action (from the original building) which is a move 1 step and perform. So it matters to know if that second action is forfeit if I moved away.
Here's a couple cases where it matters…
Example 1: You have $3. You stop at building 4a, which allows you to pay $5 for a hazard tile, and/or move forward up to 2 spaces. You move to a building which allows you to discard cows for money, and then (if permitted) use the money to pay for the hazard tile.

Example 2: You stop at building 10a, which allows you to set your certificates to the maximum and/or move up to 5 spaces. You move to Kansas City, spend your certificates, and then (if permitted) set them to the maximum

Based on the wording "do phase B again" on pg 14, I assume that you have multiple phase B's; so, when you move, you end phase B at that building. When you start phase B again at another location, you can't use actions from the earlier phase B. That is to say:
* In example 1, you couldn't use the money from the later building to pay for an action from building 4a
* In example 2, you couldn't set your certificates to the maximum after spending certificates at Kansas City
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Chris Ruf
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While this is by no means a definitive answer, my general philosophy on rules issues like this is to interpret them such that the least amount of extra rules overhead is created.

If I'm understanding all this correctly, you want to "game" the system by using the first action of your building, then before using the 1 move from the building, use the 3 move from your card. So you can essentially move to a later space and also take its action since the building's move allows you to take another action while the card does not. I generally steer away from convoluted rules interpretations like this as it feels overly forced and at odds with keeping easy to follow rules.

Until I'm told otherwise, I stick to interpretations that involve the least amount of exceptions.
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Fridjof B
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My question is better explained with the example below, where I am standing on my own red building 3a.
In phase B I discard the cards for the coin, reveal my objective card as shown, which makes me move to yellow 3a. Do I stop here my phase B here, or could I go on doing the second action on my red 3a building (move 1 step)?

 
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Christophe Soulier
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Rules says about this objective card : "If you move your cattleman after using a location in phase B, you directly carry out phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location."

So you stop your phase B here.
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Fridjof B
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Teuf wrote:
Rules says about this objective card : "If you move your cattleman after using a location in phase B, you directly carry out phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location."

So you stop your phase B here.

Thanks! After reading the rules again about that action, my case is closed, as far as I understand it.
 
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Nikolas Co
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Teuf wrote:
Rules says about this objective card : "If you move your cattleman after using a location in phase B, you directly carry out phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location."

So you stop your phase B here.
Hm, the rules are clear but it seems a little odd that you can't combine the objective card with movement from an action (e.g. movement from building 4a).
 
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M@tthijs
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NikolasCo wrote:
Example 1: You have $3. You stop at building 4a, which allows you to pay $5 for a hazard tile, and/or move forward up to 2 spaces. You move to a building which allows you to discard cows for money, and then (if permitted) use the money to pay for the hazard tile.
This seems incredibly gamey to me, to go to another tile and pretend you're still on the previous one: get money on the new one, then continue an action on the old one.

I can't imagine this is actually allowed. Can someone confirm?
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Chris Ruf
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_Kael_ wrote:
NikolasCo wrote:
Example 1: You have $3. You stop at building 4a, which allows you to pay $5 for a hazard tile, and/or move forward up to 2 spaces. You move to a building which allows you to discard cows for money, and then (if permitted) use the money to pay for the hazard tile.
This seems incredibly gamey to me, to go to another tile and pretend you're still on the previous one: get money on the new one, then continue an action on the old one.

I can't imagine this is actually allowed. Can someone confirm?


Agreed. I will be a bit dissapointed if Alex confirms this works given how simple the rest of the actions in the game are. This is just a convoluted mess, and all it does is shave one turn of your game. Which I get could be a big deal sometimes, but it is hardly worth this edge case rules nonsense.
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Darrell Goodridge
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In your picture example, Yellow 3a is 4 spaces away from Red 3a, so it's kind of moot anyway. Since the objective card doesn't allow activation at its destination, you'd just take the 1 free move from Red 3a, then the 3 move from the objective card and be done.

I can see that your question is if you can do the 3 objective move first, THEN the 1 move from Red 3a, but I agree that once you move off a location, you forfeit the rest. I think it's a case of unfortunate wording, probably meant to say "before any action in Phase B" meaning before your first action in phase B. The "one" seems unnecessary, unless he meant for there to be some weird timing issue that only expert loophole artists would find.
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Paulo Renato
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To me it's obvious (and it makes no sense to try to read it any other way) that if you use an objective card to move away from a building before you complete all the actions in that building it's the same thing as passing on those action, meaning that you won't be able to do them.

In the case you described it you could use the red building action to move one space, then do an auxiliary action and then play the objective card to move up to 3 more spaces without doing any action on the tile that you finish your movement.

There's a special case that Alex has confirmed here that allows you to do the actions of a building that you just built over, let's say you are in a building that allows you to build and you choose to build over that building, you can do it and you will be able to "before finishing building the new building" do any other actions the old building would allow you to do, but I think these are two different cases
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Teuf wrote:
Rules says about this objective card : "If you move your cattleman after using a location in phase B, you directly carry out phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location."

So you stop your phase B here.

I hope above quote answers all questions regarding the extra movement without action (gained from objective cards). After using this objective card, you go to phase C.

Additional movement+action gained from buildings (e.g. 3a) start a new phase B meaning unused actions from the building before are lost.
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Robert
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NikolasCo wrote:
Teuf wrote:
Rules says about this objective card : "If you move your cattleman after using a location in phase B, you directly carry out phase C once your cattleman reaches the new location."

So you stop your phase B here.
Hm, the rules are clear but it seems a little odd that you can't combine the objective card with movement from an action (e.g. movement from building 4a).
In the situation in the picture you can either use the one step from 3a to move forward one building (and pay the black hand), do a auxiliary action there (your new phase B), then play the card and move up to three buildings forward without paying any hands on the way, but on your target building you're in phase C. So you can move four spaces forward if you want - in the pictured situation you'd end up on the yellow 3a building.

Or you don't do the one step action from 3a and play your card right away, and move up to three buildings, and do phase C after arrival. Crossing the black hand is free, but of course if you decide to go the full three to the neutral building, you won't be able to take any actions there (neither in your current turn, nor in your next).
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