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The Edge: Dawnfall» Forums » General

Subject: Based on the criteria presented which is the dumber move? rss

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Reed Dawley
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So I am all in on the Downfall Big box, I'm not going to go for any resin add-ons because the prices are too high for me to rationalize at this time. I am trying to figure out why I should not just go Warchest level. The company site is blocked at work so it is difficult to really get an idea for the difference other than twice the miniatures. Taking money out of the equation given my financial situation (I am in the middle of working 12 days in a row with a total of 40 hours of overtime, basically working three weeks in two weeks with no days off) does it make sense to downgrade? Every time I think about downgrading I think then I can add resin set pieces (not big bosses) and I'll end up spending a bit more but will that add to the experience?

Basically what it boils down to is I most likely will be playing this 2 or 3 players (I like the option to play with more but that is most likely a pipe dream) so do the extra units really help with army building or should I just go war chest and add the resin terrain expansions? Its a question of 300$ for double figs and more army building or 400$ for normal army building and pretty terrain. As a non wargamer (and I know this started out as a wargame and is now somewhere in the middle) how much do these things matter. Any advice is appreciated and calling me an idiot either way is totally understandable and acceptable.
 
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S W
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The warchest level was added later, in response to feedback that the game was too expensive and it's amazing value. I don't really see the value in going big box, as far as I can work out warchest contains the entire game and is much better value.

Maybe big box would work if you wanted to run multiple sessions at once in a bigger group, but for me I'd prefer warchest and a resin expansion to the original big box pledge.

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Reed Dawley
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I appreciate the logical response and not calling me an idiot. That is what I have been thinking, but I am mired in stupid loss aversion. My brain says what if you want two little wolf guys and you only have one, which is dumb, I could buy the faction packs at retail cheaper. I have trouble seeing a time where I am running multiple games at once and need extra dudes. It does not seem the wise move. I need to think about this more and see if I can round up the website pics to see what each pledge has. Maybe if I understood the team and deckbuilding aspects better it would be super clear that the big box is way more dumb for my purposes. Thank you.

[edit - I snagged the pics on my phone and am uploading them to my onedrive for perusal.]
 
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Reed Dawley
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So the big box gets:
Twice the dudes and cards
One extra combat board
Two extra scenario books(I assume the same book)
The art/comic/story books (the comic and story are available in PDF)
Twenty extra Crystal tokens
Two extra Banners
Four extra Darkness terrain models
One Dawnfall Scenario book

It seems like all the extra stuff is for more players/multiple simultaneous games other than the Dawnwall scenario book. C'mon people, help me break this mental block

[edit - But you need this box to do 2 on 2 team combat, which I would be playing, I usually play 2,3 or 4 players in games and teaming helps. Damn, this makes it harder not easier...]
 
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Eric
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IMCarnochan wrote:
So the big box gets:
Twice the dudes and cards
One extra combat board
Two extra scenario books(I assume the same book)
The art/comic/story books (the comic and story are available in PDF)
Twenty extra Crystal tokens
Two extra Banners
Four extra Darkness terrain models
One Dawnfall Scenario book

It seems like all the extra stuff is for more players/multiple simultaneous games other than the Dawnwall scenario book. C'mon people, help me break this mental block

[edit - But you need this box to do 2 on 2 team combat, which I would be playing, I usually play 2,3 or 4 players in games and teaming helps. Damn, this makes it harder not easier...]


Like you said, you need the big box to get two of the same factions if you want to play a 2 v 2 game with one faction vs another. I wonder about the extra cards though. Would these be needed in a 2 v 2 or would one team share them? Seems like it could get confusing. I'm going for the big box because I want the option and I'd like to play some of these specific scenarios.
 
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Jason
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In 2 vs 2, wouldn't you have 2 factions join sides? That seems funner and more interesting than only playing with 2 factions in 4 player.

Honestly, unless you're planning on doing army building where you run say two angels of death (or whatever it's called) in a single Reborn army. Then I don't know what the point of the big box is.

Then again, I couldn't see paying that price for terrain either.
 
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Reed Dawley
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I read on the Kickstarter page that 2 vs 2 each side plays same factions. I think it is in the comments somewhere. I'm still leaning big box, I showed my GF the video and she wants Angels of death.
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Eric
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IMCarnochan wrote:
I read on the Kickstarter page that 2 vs 2 each side plays same factions. I think it is in the comments somewhere. I'm still leaning big box, I showed my GF the video and she wants Angels of death.


They added clarification. In 2 v 2 you can either play one faction vs one other faction OR you can play four different factions, two of them on each side.

They said that there are special scenarios where you need to play the same faction in 2 v 2 but I'm not sure how that would work. I think it does sound more interesting to just have four different factions but I'm not sure. I'd love to save the $100 and put that towards Deep Madness instead.
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Reed Dawley
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Thanks for the update, I hadn't seen that yet. I still think I want to be able to play both ways. I'm hopeless.
 
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Eric
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IMCarnochan wrote:
Thanks for the update, I hadn't seen that yet. I still think I want to be able to play both ways. I'm hopeless.


Yeah if you want to do the same faction vs same faction you need TWO of the same faction boxes, ie the big box.

I'm just trying to figure out if the game will be fun or not. It's very hard to get an idea on how something plays without actually playing it.
 
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Reed Dawley
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I love Neuroshima Hex, and the placement rules are similar. I love Heroscape and HeroClix, and the combat is similarly simple. I like army building in Duel of Ages and this is nothing like that, I just wanted to say that Duel Of Ages is great. I like the army building in Krosmaster and this is kind of similar sort of, maybe. I haven't played a lot of games where you build armies to be honest so that part I am unbiased, unprejudiced and unknowledgeable which is where my question came from. I don't think anyone here has a really firm idea of how it all goes together, but I look forward to finding out.
 
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Vincent DiDaniele
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Yeah I came across this Kickstarter and am considering going with the Warchest. It looks like a fun game but without any thorough reviewers digging into the game to share their thoughts, I find it difficult to justify so I'm currently struggling to decide.
 
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Reed Dawley
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I'm pretty sure all the factions stuff will be available at retail, so Warchest is a good way to go. If you like a faction or two you can always pick them up later online cheaper, I reckon. I just hate tracking stuff down, that and work created sleep deprivation makes me more of a monetary daredevil.
 
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Da Mighty Kip
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The one thing that kept me at "Dawnfall" level was this: I have a young daughter who is getting really excited about painting miniatures. I briefly imagined opening the final Kickstarter shipment and showing her the minis and then saying, "Aaaand, only *I* get to paint these."

Instead, I get to say, "Aren't these awesome! And look! Half for you -- half for me!"

By this same logic, is your girlfriend interested in painting at all?
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Reed Dawley
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She tried her hand at it once, enjoyed it but hasn't picked up a brush since. Maybe this will spark her interest, getting her own team done, which is an excellent point I had not thought of. Usually I just end up doing her bidding. Her Slaughterball Valkyries are Wonder Woman themed for example.



[edit - added pic, those were in the middle of being painted, they look a little better now]
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Jacob Temple
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Reed, just want to say I am appreciating your thought process, -the bit about Neuroshima, Heroclix etc was useful for me placing where this might fit in my games that I never play.

Keep it up, means I don't have to
 
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Reed Dawley
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Temple of Battle wrote:
Reed, just want to say I am appreciating your thought process, -the bit about Neuroshima, Heroclix etc was useful for me placing where this might fit in my games that I never play.

Keep it up, means I don't have to


Thank you?
 
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Kenton White
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Here was my thought process between war chest and dawnfall (full disclosure ATM I'm still on conflict pledge and will probably upgrade to war chest)

The game seems to have been initially designed around the conflict box. Players could get together with others who have different factions for skirmishes, but the complete game is the conflict box.

Backer feedback was confused. If the core game is just a single conflict box, then why 6 factions? Are we missing some cool gameplay in another faction? What if I want two factions that are not in a conflict box?

Awakened Realms responded by adding an additional faction to the conflict box. But now two conflict pledges gets all factions for £170. The Dawnfall pledge, which originally contained all factions, is overpriced at £250 (the only difference being the addition of the books, which the collectors box set at a price of £15).

To balance this price difference, Awakened Realms doubled the the figures so that it includes two of each faction.

This is the key point of my decision process. The doubling of the faction in the Dawnfall pledge was not driven by game design but by marketing (showing a great value at £250 price point).

Now I'm sure Awakened Realms will do a fantastic job of adapting the rules to work with double factions. But if you read through the comments, they are very transparent (too their credit) that the Dawnfall box is really suited, like the boss and terrain expansions, to collectors and minatures painters -- those that want to build massive armies for display. Awakened Realms has repeated time and again that the COMPLETE game can be found in the conflict box.

I'm here for the gameplay. I don't paint miniatures. I don't display my miniatures. I want the game as Michal Oracz originally envisioned it (see his excellent essay for more details). The Dawnfall box is not that game.
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Reed Dawley
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Good points, all. More to think about.
 
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Arneth Lee
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Part of me is saying get double conflict boxes so you get more kickstarter exclusives.
Other part of me is saying get the Dawnfall box because having every faction starter twice is the dream of beginning a new wargame, having the ability of much greater customization, and starting/owning all factions at once.
The Terrain seesm nice, but this would be the last thing I buy without knowledge of the game. But, since there are no LOS rules in this game so far that require tracking the actual "line" of sight you can build the terrain yourself. (apart from the scenarios included.)

Now, since we know nothing about squad design/army building, What do you do if the Son of Khyber is unique and can only be used in an army once but you have two? Or if it goes the same route as other wargames where the first expansion alredy makes a model obsolete? (intentionally or not, I'm not trying to blame anyone, but, yeah most of the times that happens. some times not because the model is better, but because everybody is very used to countering the original model it replaces, giving you an edge with the new version) Because this game screams expansions.

As I was beginning to write this, I was sure I was going to help you, but now I'm not so sure. We simply don't know if more terrain or more army building options makes the game better. get a little of both?
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Reed Dawley
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AAAAHHHHHHH! I was just coming in to post I was stating to lean towards warchest, but now... I'm just going to be over here in the corner banging my head against the desk. Actually, I think we all know that this is an amazing problem to have, do I get just one set of armies or two sets. I am back on the Downfall side of the fence.

But since I am working a 76 hour week the extra hundred bucks isn't going to break my bank, now if I could just get more than 6 hours of sleep...
 
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