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Daniel Davis - Personal
United States
Seattle
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I understand the idea, and I think it works thematically for the heroes to be working against a clock.

However, it all comes down to nothing but luck. Roll bad a couple dozen times in a row, and you've lost, totally negating any amount of planning.


Now I haven't seen every item/skill/ability in the game, so I'm just asking - is there anything that the heroes can do to improve their chances on this?

If not, has anyone made a good house rule that is also thematic? Something like the hero with the highest lore should get the lantern so they get a bonus or something?
 
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Adam Canning
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D_Davis wrote:
Now I haven't seen every item/skill/ability in the game, so I'm just asking - is there anything that the heroes can do to improve their chances on this?


Yes there are. There are a couple of alternative Lanterns in the smaller supplements that do things to the Hold back the Darkness roll.

There are items and abilities that stop the darkness moving on the track.

There is at least one thing that gains you bonuses when the darkness moves and some that push the darkness back along the track.
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Philip Jelley
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D_Davis wrote:
I understand the idea, and I think it works thematically for the heroes to be working against a clock.

However, it all comes down to nothing but luck. Roll bad a couple dozen times in a row, and you've lost, totally negating any amount of planning.


Now I haven't seen every item/skill/ability in the game, so I'm just asking - is there anything that the heroes can do to improve their chances on this?

If not, has anyone made a good house rule that is also thematic? Something like the hero with the highest lore should get the lantern so they get a bonus or something?


The Frontier Town Expansion box allows you to buy lamp oil tokens, which allow you to re-roll one Hold Bsck the Darkness die. There are also lamps, and some books that stop movement of the darkness token once each each adventure. Some heroes have this ability as well on their upgrade trees, the Lawman for one I think.
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Daniel Davis - Personal
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Right on, thanks all.

As I suspected, I just hadn't come across these items/powers yet.

 
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Andreas Lieberoth Wadum
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We actually got rid of those lanterns, when we found them. Things got a bit too easy.
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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Bonn
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I just played a few first games. Holding back the darkness was a pain in the lower back. The first six rounds of my first gam I only managed the roll once... Ok that must be bad luck since on a 7+ sucess is statisically more than 50%.

BTW (and off topic - sorry) my first games: I noticed on some youtube videos that once enemies are adjacent to the heroes they are not moved when they activate. I that right? In the rules it says they stay on target but wouldn't they still try to move around my heroes to allow more enemies to attack (especially interesting when playing with one character)
 
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Philip Jelley
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Cuthailion wrote:
I just played a few first games. Holding back the darkness was a pain in the lower back. The first six rounds of my first gam I only managed the roll once... Ok that must be bad luck since on a 7+ sucess is statisically more than 50%.

BTW (and off topic - sorry) my first games: I noticed on some youtube videos that once enemies are adjacent to the heroes they are not moved when they activate. I that right? In the rules it says they stay on target but wouldn't they still try to move around my heroes to allow more enemies to attack (especially interesting when playing with one character)


That is right, except when Large, XL and XXL monsters move through smaller monsters, or if they have wings or slither, which allows them to move through models.
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Tom Tremblay
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I have a build for a law man built solely to mitigate the darkness.
Though a lot depends on luck for getting +1 max grit bonuses.
Give him the Iron will starting upgrade, somehow get him scout or tribal (I bought him a scout's hat).
Then get him cavalry jacket so he's doubling the odds of getting grit (on a 6 also).
Then upgrade him to roll two movement dice.
Your collecting grit like crazy for a chance to dispel darkness whenever it comes.
 
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Joe Price
United States
Austin
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Cuthailion wrote:
I just played a few first games. Holding back the darkness was a pain in the lower back. The first six rounds of my first gam I only managed the roll once... Ok that must be bad luck since on a 7+ sucess is statisically more than 50%.

BTW (and off topic - sorry) my first games: I noticed on some youtube videos that once enemies are adjacent to the heroes they are not moved when they activate. I that right? In the rules it says they stay on target but wouldn't they still try to move around my heroes to allow more enemies to attack (especially interesting when playing with one character)


HBtD rolls can be mean like that - but when you're on your last roll trying to finish and you actually DO, heh, lots of cheers. And losing a mission isn't exactly end-of-the-world (well, except for one mission).

For monsters, I like how Myth handles it: instinct and intelligent. Instinct doesn't bother - they're out for themselves. Intelligent re-adjusts. But most things that qualify as "intelligent" also have assault or shootout rules.

We do also play that if the *original* target moves away from a melee combantant, that the monster is free to retarget. We also play that swarming happens at the same time - so it's not the first monster moving that can block everything else. They're all allocated evenly/randomly and then the appropriate ones moved to target.

Complex example: if there are 7 spiders and 4 heroes, each hero will get 1 spider and then we roll to see which hero does not get an extra, provided at the start of the spider activation there is a path to each hero. If a hero only has space for one spider, then they are automatically out of the consideration for an extra. If in this example two heroes only have space for one spider, then everyone gets one, two heroes get one more, and the last spider is randomized between whatever space would be available.

The actual decision making is very quick and straight-forward, once it's been explained. It always seems to take me a while to explain it, which is why I typically just allocate all the monsters and everyone is happy with it.

The short version runs something like this:
* If a monster can reach a hero, that hero will be reached. This isn't up to random luck that a spider stops early preventing the rest of the horde from getting in (this does encourage using bottle necks, staying near walls and staying close to the posse - which means fear plays a bigger role and the AE monsters are just nasty - which REALLY changes how to play as being out of sight around corners is now your friend).
* Allocate monsters evenly based upon their ability to reach - if you have to move one specific monster to reach one specific hero, then that's the monster that moves there (and probably first so the path is clear).
* If a blockage will occur, then move that monster later. Though there are some really few times that the only choice is a blockage regardless of order - that just means you lucked out (or were really paying attention to the tactical setup). If a monster can move through others, then obviously this isn't as big of a deal. (The really dangerous melee monsters are the low initiative, high move, high damage ones - they go after earlier ones that clog the heroes and after the heroes have had a change to clear some of those early monsters. They then fill the gaps and pass through to the rear "protected" lines, typically swarming the weaker heroes attempting to say farther away. Doesn't happen often as the multi-pull threats are getting VERY thinned out - anyone want to make some more?)

Finally, only re-allocate a monster if its target is no longer next to it. The "instinct" ones don't bother moving. The "intelligent" ones (mostly assault) move around to cause more havoc. The Trun Hunters can be amusing with their push capability.

Anyway, for the HBtD roll - we usually accumulate a number of those items, and especially like and use the prevent from moving abilities, but the rest are situational and we usually don't bother. Two grit to re-roll? Those two grit will usually go toward killing faster to make fewer rolls unless we're on the wire or completely coasting. Clearing a mission with zero or maybe just the final fight is an interesting bit of experiential probability. Basically the definition of anticipation denied. surprise
 
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