$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 68.31

4,765 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
30% of Goal | 28 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
27 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Zombicide: Black Plague» Forums » General

Subject: Can the Black Plague Zombie Epidemic be Stopped? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is just a discussion piece, to have a little fun with the fluff surrounding the game so don't take it too seriously.

Normal zombie epidemics are unstoppable because of the seemingly exponential growth created by zombies creating more zombies by biting. Such an epidemic is unstoppable after the initial outbreak is going.

Black Plague though uses necromancers as the “infection” vector. There is no evidence within the game that you become a zombie after being bitten. It seems therefore that you become a zombie as a result of a necromantic ritual, probably a complicated one. Dying from zombies only makes you dead.

So what are the spawn tokens? And what is the necromancer spawn token? One must suppose that the regular token is a magical lure designed to draw zombies already created. The necromancer token is perhaps an enhancement to the tokens already around the area to draw MORE zombies. When the necromancer is killed, one of the lures flickers out.

So how can you kill the epidemic? Kill the necromancers. There will, of course, still be zombies. You still have to kill them. But without the ability of the zombies to make more zombies, the epidemic is stoppable.

All of this is pure guesswork of course. The wolfz are proof that EATING the undead DOES make you zombified. So eating the undead or zombified animals is a bad idea. Perhaps with the right magical artifact (say a necromancer staff) and a few combat actions spoken by a spellcaster, a “lure/spawn point” can be eliminated?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Phan
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmb
Isn't there one mission where you have to rescue the villagers, but some villagers are "infected" and then you have to perform a spawn?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Phan wrote:
Isn't there one mission where you have to rescue the villagers, but some villagers are "infected" and then you have to perform a spawn?


Yes. Either that means I'm wrong in which case wouldn't there be infection rules in the game? Maybe not if the infection takes time. Or perhaps the necromancers have done something to those survivors. Or maybe the infection rate is much lower (10% rather than 100% as in normal epidemics)? It's a good point though. Or maybe those survivors ate infected meat (a wolfz maybe)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well if the backstory is that the Necromancers are "evil" and open portals to the necro realm or raise the dead as zombies then you could have a "good" Necromancer who instead of raising an army of dead they guide the dead to a peaceful rest. Like Abhorsen. That good type of Necromancer should be able to close or prevent the raising of zombies in an area effectively remove a spawn, if only temporary.

Another possible theory about the zombies is that they are caused by a plague and spread as conventional zombies do, bite, blood, whatever. The necromancers just use magic to control them. The necromancers might even have caused the outbreak with some foul potion or ritual. Maybe it's caused by some chaos god or demon. In which case killing the necromancers is just the tip of the pyramid of destruction the heroes must brave through.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Ludlam
United Kingdom
Birmingham
flag msg tools
Pandemic: Black Plague edition
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey Nolin
Japan
Nakamachi, Hiroshima
Hiroshima-ken
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The only way to stop these zombies is for there to be a global economic meltdown of epic proportions affecting all gamers. (Throwing cash at them won't stop them.)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike B Canada wrote:
Well if the backstory is that the Necromancers are "evil" and open portals to the necro realm or raise the dead as zombies then you could have a "good" Necromancer who instead of raising an army of dead they guide the dead to a peaceful rest. Like Abhorsen. That good type of Necromancer should be able to close or prevent the raising of zombies in an area effectively remove a spawn, if only temporary.

Another possible theory about the zombies is that they are caused by a plague and spread as conventional zombies do, bite, blood, whatever. The necromancers just use magic to control them. The necromancers might even have caused the outbreak with some foul potion or ritual. Maybe it's caused by some chaos god or demon. In which case killing the necromancers is just the tip of the pyramid of destruction the heroes must brave through.


Yes but if that is true, the situation is already hopeless. Does EVERY zombie game have to be hopeless? Maybe it would be fun to have one you can actually win for the humans (e.g. Novel - World War Z)? Given that this is magic too, let's not overlook spells to transform zombies into humans again (D&D Raise Dead or Resurrection).

Just because Romero gave us infecting zombies doesn't mean they're all like that. Then they're fast, then they're smart, then everyone is already infected and becomes a zombie even if they die a normal death, etc etc etc. I'm bored with every movie trying to top the previous ones. I like the Kobayashi Maru test as much as the next guy but I wouldn't mind an interesting change. Besides if you read the text in the game manuals, they seem more optimistic than that.

If you're right, it's just like every other zombie game world, all 2.5 billion of them right?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christophe Muller de Schongor
France
Cachan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that BP's Zombies are back from the dead magicaly animated "puppets", controlled by Necromancers through dark magic.
Spawn are for me only entrance point of forementionned puppets, not portals per say (although the necromancer's one might be, fluff wise).
So you don't turn zombie, you turn dead then turn zombie. Pretty much like the Whithe Walker's army (GoT)
- Which is a big difference with Modernicide. -
So you might end the zombie invasion if you manage to kill every necromancer. If the animation outlives the Necromancer, then you might also have to kill every remaining zombies.

That being said, I can't recall where there is a link between eating zombie and becoming one, and whatever WolfZ have to do with that?!?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
mb
carbon_dragon wrote:
Can the Black Plague Zombie Epidemic be Stopped?


No. CMON stands to lose out on too much potential money if the Black Plague epidemic ever ends within that fictional universe.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Supposedly the Wolfz were normal wolves who ate the undead and were "changed". The minis don't look that zombie like but the illustrations show them as undead wolves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
QorDaq H'Nter
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Great Topic.

Personally, I see the spawn zones in both Z:BP and Modern as exactly the same thing, an abstract mechanism for bringing the Hoard to the Board. And, has nothing to do with Magic.

Here is my logic;

The undead have/ are risen.

They are are everywhere.

Necromancers are involved on some level, either actually raising them or possibly just exploiting a fortuitous set of circumstances. Maybe a little of each... Point is, we don't actually know.

There is nothing to prove that a virus could not be magical in nature. I.E. created by magic but potentially transmitted in multiple ways.

---------

So, to me the spawn point is simply the location where the Zeds are first noticed/ coming from. We don't see the whole city/ town, but we can assume that it is infested. For whatever reason, spawn points therefore represent paths of least resistance which have lead the undead masses to the location where noise is happening (The PCs). Think of it this way; most frequently Spawn points are located at the edges of maps, i.e. where Zeds are funneling in from.

Perhaps those that only show up after a particular event is triggered, represent zombies being drawn to the area because of the trigger, noise, magic, whatever...

In the same way that splitting zombies (to me), simply means that there were more zombies than the PCs thought, a Necromancer who may or may not have the ability to teleport, but certainly seems to draw more undead towards areas they have spent time in, creates an increased likelihood of zombies being drawn to the area, again, for whatever reasons.

So yeah, maybe some spawn zones are in fact portals, some may simply be ally ways that masses of the undead have been bottlenecking through town from, while others may represent magical (or even mundane) lures... Point is, I am not sure that they [all] actually have to be one thing or another. At the end of the day, the PCs have to deal with the objectives of a given quest and the presence of Zombie hoards is part of the challenge.

Can it be stopped? Is there a larger end game where the world might actually be saved? I'm not sure, but in a way I kind of hope not, because I love these games...*Chuckle*...

And, to make things more complicated, for my gaming groups, our larger world story will definitely tie Z:BP and Massive Darkness into a common universe where, for us, the Undead Plague is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg of a much larger set of nefarious events facing the world.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
QorDaq wrote:
Great Topic.

Personally, I see the spawn zones in both Z:BP and Modern as exactly the same thing, an abstract mechanism for bringing the Hoard to the Board. And, has nothing to do with Magic.

Here is my logic;

The undead have/ are risen.

They are are everywhere.

Necromancers are involved on some level, either actually raising them or possibly just exploiting a fortuitous set of circumstances. Maybe a little of each... Point is, we don't actually know.

There is nothing to prove that a virus could not be magical in nature. I.E. created by magic but potentially transmitted in multiple ways.

---------

So, to me the spawn point is simply the location where the Zeds are first noticed/ coming from. We don't see the whole city/ town, but we can assume that it is infested. For whatever reason, spawn points therefore represent paths of least resistance which have lead the undead masses to the location where noise is happening (The PCs). Think of it this way; most frequently Spawn points are located at the edges of maps, i.e. where Zeds are funneling in from.

Perhaps those that only show up after a particular event is triggered, represent zombies being drawn to the area because of the trigger, noise, magic, whatever...

In the same way that splitting zombies (to me), simply means that there were more zombies than the PCs thought, a Necromancer who may or may not have the ability to teleport, but certainly seems to draw more undead towards areas they have spent time in, creates an increased likelihood of zombies being drawn to the area, again, for whatever reasons.

So yeah, maybe some spawn zones are in fact portals, some may simply be ally ways that masses of the undead have been bottlenecking through town from, while others may represent magical (or even mundane) lures... Point is, I am not sure that they [all] actually have to be one thing or another. At the end of the day, the PCs have to deal with the objectives of a given quest and the presence of Zombie hoards is part of the challenge.

Can it be stopped? Is there a larger end game where the world might actually be saved? I'm not sure, but in a way I kind of hope not, because I love these games...*Chuckle*...

And, to make things more complicated, for my gaming groups, our larger world story will definitely tie Z:BP and Massive Darkness into a common universe where, for us, the Undead Plague is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg of a much larger set of nefarious events facing the world.


What you're overlooking is that in a campaign it might be fun to finish the campaign out having saved the world from zombies. If zombies are never going to stop coming, and everything you do is just delaying the inevitable, how much actual satisfaction are you going to get doing it? Don't you want to feel that you accomplished something by playing the campaign?

You'll notice in the movie World War Z, even though the novel started from the precept that the zombies had been stopped and they were just talking about it afterward to people who had fought in the war, the movie was just another example of the same old tired zombie story in which the zombies keep coming forever and were going to probably kill everyone. Hey I just think it would be nice to have a change of pace.

The doomed campaign is okay I guess, but a campaign that actually has a positive outcome would be an unusual and new way of seeing the zombie saga.

I like zombie movies, I just don't want to watch the same one over and over again or see the same identical themes in games over and over again.

It doesn't change the game, but I would just like to think when I play that the prospects are a little bit better for humanity.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If you wanted to campaign the zompocalypse black plague you could very easily make the curse of undeath caused by the Necromancers, with a final big bad evil guy, either as some super powerful necromancer lichking or a demon from the great beyond. Want to win and save the world? Kill all the antagonists. You might need a few house rules and some miniature(s) from another game/company but it could be a great game if you could find the players willing to devote the time to it. The best would be combining Massive Darkness mobs to the game so there's not as much repetitive threat. If you have any dungeons and draon playing skills, creating something like this would be a cakewalk.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Bos
Canada
flag msg tools
Zombies make more Zombies... Necromancers merely control the zombies?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christophe Muller de Schongor
France
Cachan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
carbon_dragon wrote:
If zombies are never going to stop coming, and everything you do is just delaying the inevitable, how much actual satisfaction are you going to get doing it?

That is highly philosophical, when you really think about it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike B Canada wrote:
If you wanted to campaign the zompocalypse black plague you could very easily make the curse of undeath caused by the Necromancers, with a final big bad evil guy, either as some super powerful necromancer lichking or a demon from the great beyond. Want to win and save the world? Kill all the antagonists. You might need a few house rules and some miniature(s) from another game/company but it could be a great game if you could find the players willing to devote the time to it. The best would be combining Massive Darkness mobs to the game so there's not as much repetitive threat. If you have any dungeons and draon playing skills, creating something like this would be a cakewalk.


It certainly is a modern trope that there's a big bad that once killed, kills all of the other monsters. Basically that's the first Star Wars prequel movie. There's nothing wrong with that idea, but I wonder if during a campaign you might want to actually see the progress being made. This way things look like you're over your head the entire time and it's just at the end where everything magically dies.

Anyway this is been a good discussion. I take it that most people kind of think that the zombie epidemic is supposed to be unstoppable. That the makers intended this particular zombie epidemic to be like a modern zombie epidemic where the exponential numbers of zombies rise out of control and all you're doing is surviving as long as possible.

It seems impossible to imagine in the Walking Dead or the George Romero movies that anyone is going to survive forever. All the characters are doing in the movies is to slow down the eventual extinction of the human race. In the last Romero movies you had to wonder if the zombies are going to form some kind of a weird civilization after all the humans are gone, but I don't think there's going to be an actual civilizations of humans left -- it's just a matter of weeks or months or in the case of the walking dead years perhaps.

Here in black plague, if the necromancers are the infection vector, then the plague has a chance of being resolved. If the necromancers are merely controlling the zombies, then it's like any other zombie outbreak, and is probably unstoppable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
QorDaq H'Nter
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
carbon_dragon wrote:
...Snip...

Anyway this is been a good discussion. I take it that most people kind of think that the zombie epidemic is supposed to be unstoppable. That the makers intended this particular zombie epidemic to be like a modern zombie epidemic where the exponential numbers of zombies rise out of control and all you're doing is surviving as long as possible.

...Snip...


Speaking only for myself, I am a big fan of post-apocalyptic fiction in general. So my own take on Zombies in the modern sense (as opposed to super old school White Zombie kinds of fare), is as a sub-genre of that.

Now some stories do have more upbeat endings; Logan's Run, The Postman, to some degree Zardoz, etc. and only naming a very few. But even in these examples it's primarily the salvation of a relatively small group (The Postman being a notable exception in my list), and even the Road Warrior series, sans Mad Max, has a small group surviving, though generally at the expense of the Hero--with the rest of the world still in danger.

With this in mind, I have taken the view that on the local level, our "heroes" are in fact striving to make a dent in the apocalypse, and perhaps in the wake of their efforts some will be saved. This, implies that *IF* there are enough people out there being heroic (and successful, we all know how quickly things can go wrong for a party in Zcide), an end "Could" be possible.

But on the session-by-session/ mission-by-mission level, it's mostly survival.

On a practical level, I doubt VERY seriously that GG ever thought the storyline through to that degree. And, I believe that to be intentional, as they have left the world building to the players. Which is great because it does create on open-ended question that the players get to answer for themselves.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex K
msg tools
Of course it can be stopped, you just have to find the graveyard take the right book say: "Klaatu Verata Nikto" and that's it, bonus points for doing it with Troy.

So now who can write a matching mission for that?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe the real problem is that after an endless sea of dystopian games and dystopian movies I'm just aching to see a little bit of optimism to keep me from jumping off a cliff. Besides I like it when movies and games take you in directions you didn't foresee. The only real difference in black plague is that there are necromancers. But if those necromancers don't really matter to the outcome, then it's just the same old story we've seen hundred times before right?

Of course if the makers of this game were trying to be optimistic, they would probably have each mission be about the characters trying to clean up the board before the end of the mission, rather than to achieve a set of objectives in the midst of a gathering horde of unstoppable zombies. I suspect the necromancers are just window dressing really.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I got thinking more about this and my guess is that if the Necromancers caused the outbreak, then they would also be able to raise more types of undead besides zombies, so given that conclusion, RedShirtRob must be right, the outbreak happened somehow, but the Necromancers just are able to control the zombies. Which means, it's probably a futile mission.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christophe Muller de Schongor
France
Cachan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
carbon_dragon wrote:
In the last Romero movies you had to wonder if the zombies are going to form some kind of a weird civilization after all the humans are gone, but I don't think there's going to be an actual civilizations of humans left -- it's just a matter of weeks or months or in the case of the walking dead years perhaps.

That what made and makes "I am Legend - the book" a marvel.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
XofMdS wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
In the last Romero movies you had to wonder if the zombies are going to form some kind of a weird civilization after all the humans are gone, but I don't think there's going to be an actual civilizations of humans left -- it's just a matter of weeks or months or in the case of the walking dead years perhaps.

That what made and makes "I am Legend - the book" a marvel.


In that book, the affected humans actually DO form a new society. The twist is that the protagonist is, in some ways, the monster of the piece. Zombie intelligence has been toyed with in both Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and the later Romero movies. Also Warm Bodies where it becomes possible to convert the zombies back into humans.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Slade
msg tools
Shaun of the dead showed we can totally beat back the zombies.

What I like about the mission briefings is they usually seem quite optimistic about victory.

The other question is even if our beloved heroes defeat all the zombies if there are only a couple of them left would they be able to rebuild a civilisation from such a small population?

Also considering the characters include orcs, elves and dwarves. Did all of these races become zombies as well?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Swan
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Over here in Holland it's the television shows that make me want to run onto the streets in search of brains.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christophe Muller de Schongor
France
Cachan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Vladvonbounce wrote:
Also considering the characters include orcs, elves and dwarves. Did all of these races become zombies as well?

This was the big expectation during the kickstarter. Alas, only ELves have been so far pictured as potential zombies, in the form of one NPC sculpt.
We shall see if upcoming boxes widen that path.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.