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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » General

Subject: Random thoughts on the Mythic Wars: Pantheon KickStarter rss

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Disclaimer: this may be the kickstarter game I put the most money in. So don't worry that I may have any unreasonable reservations concerning its potential!
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1. Timing: I read Conan (I didn't back that game) wave 1 wasn't delivered in the USA yet. It may be an unfortunate timing to release Mythic Wars now, as some of those backers may be reluctant to back this one before they received the previous game. I had the same issues with another game studio and I can imagine people having doubts. It will almost certainly put a dent in the potential number of backers.

2. Creeps and undead - the old game was Hades vs Athena so understandably, a lot of units came from the (un)dead realm. Now the rest of the Gods aren't from the underworld I hope most of the extra units won't be, either.
Perhaps I'm a bit overfed by soooo many other games with undead, zombies, demons and such - but I'd like to see some more decent traditional archetypical Greek units and heroes.

3. Terrain: I definitely like the Greek columns but I hope trees and elevations aren't stretch goals but add-ons (if such an add-on is released at all). They take up a lot of space in the box and you can easily buy them in any hobby or mini railway shop (or order them from China) for not a lot of money.

4. Female Gods. As far as I understand, the original game had 50% female gods and I hope this installments gets more, as there are now already 5 male Gods in Pantheon vs 1 female. Hera and Aphrodite are confirmed - but I am especially waiting for Artemis (Diana). In my game group the ladies prefer to play with tough female characters so to interest them I hope she's in!

5. Differences between the original Mythic Wars and this one - I wonder if anyone with the original game has made comparisons based on the gameplay vids and rules and can tell why and where (except for the minis) this installment would be an improvement? A 7.1 for the original Mythic Wars wasn't bad at all, but not really exceptional either.

6. Languages: No German or Spanish translation (yet). I think it's a pity. Not so much for me personally (I am dutch) but especially because the potential German language game market is very large (~100 million people) and it may cost the KS quite a few backers (and worse: unlocked stretch goals). No idea about the Spanish language market; there's of course a lot of native speakers - but are they really all that much into gaming?

7. Maps - I'm very happy with 4 maps and I certainly hope for perhaps another 2 as a stretch goal (I guess there probably will be at least 2 more coming with the Poseidon add-on). I hope that IF we get bigger maps, they will be rectangular, not square. The vast majority of people have rectangular tables and I often find square boards very impractical (I'm looking at you, Blood Rage) as you want to have space left in front of you to put all your stuff. Preferably more than 2 inches. So 60 cm wide seems perfect - make potential maps 60 x 90 cm or have 2 maps that can be fit together for larger games or something.

8. Why hasn't this game been extensively promoted in Greece? ;-)
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Steven
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I am backing right now, but I am still mostly undecided. As far as Conan goes, it has been delivered to the shipping company. Many backers already have their games, but some are still in the mail. I personally got my game yesterday. I would think almost, if not all the remaining games will arrive before the campaign ends.

1. Read above about shipping. That said, Conan is the main reason I am unsure about this game. They delivered a very nice looking game, but it is not without issues. For me, keeping my pledge depends on how they handle those issues. They are working on fixing the rulebook so that is something, but from what I have read, there are a number of translation and other errors (like using wrong icons) on cards and tiles. They have not said if or how they would fix this part, at least from what I have seen. I do like the game I received, so I do hope they fix things. If not, I will still have fun.

2. I can go either way. I am happy with things as is, but I would never turned down variety!

3. The game is already expensive enough. I prefer that the terrain comes as a stretch goal. Plus, even if you buy them elsewhere, you still need a place to store them. I would rather it all come together.

4. I dislike how females typically end up being stretch goals that are dependent on funding. It would be nice if more publishers put some thought into this, but it is what it is I guess.

5. I am not sure of the differences between the original and this, but I saw a thread yesterday that asked this question and a couple of original owners said what they thought.

6. I don't know if I wan this translated or not. They did such a bad job with Conan there might not be a point lol. Hopefully they have learned and employed better translators for this one if they do.

7. More maps would always be nice. I think I read somewhere that we might be able to play matches on Conan maps, but I am not sure. If so, it will be a nice benefit for us Conan owners if true.


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Thanee
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1. Yeah, it is a bit unfortunate, that some of the negativity about the Conan delays might affect this. OTOH, if people get their Conan pledge during the campaign, it might also pull them in. Who knows.

2. Some undead/underworld-themed models are fine. Prefer the traditional ones, though, and such like centaurs, sirens, etc.

3. We will see. They surely have something planned for that.

4. Definitely expecting Artemis in addition to Hera and Aphrodite. Hopefully a few more female heroes as well.

5. Never played the original. I remember having looked at it back then, but it did not really draw my attention.

6. They already said, that they want to focus on french/english only, so it will only happen if there are a lot of backers interested in it. Personally, I do not care, since I prefer english over german for my games, anyways.

7. I think they mentioned scenarios with 2 maps (so, rectangular), and they also mentioned that quite a few more maps will be coming (as part of expansions, i.e. some water-based maps with the Poseidon expansion, maybe some as stretch goals as well).

8. Well... market size?

Bye
Thanee
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Itai Perez
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1. Though not finished, the shipping of Conan is in good way. Based on the last reports, Europe, Asia and ROTW are almost finished and USA is about 50-60% done. The areas still waiting are Canada (because of customs delays), and Australia-NZ (because the ship took a lot of time to get there). But outside of these 2 areas, it seems that all backers of Conan should recieve their game well before the end of the MB:Pantheon campaign.

5. The main component differences are: the maps, which are now Conan-like, with irregular areas, the miniatures instead of tokens, the unit sheets with a ruler, instead of a deck of cards.
As far as the rules go, the main differences is the removal of the mystical power (now replaced by art of war cards). I also think the drafting of troops, the 3 and 4 players modes, and the double victory conditions (killing a god or getting enough omphalos) are new.
And of course, this edition also adds scenarii and campaign modes.

6. They said they are thinking about it, but that there will probably not be other languages on this KS. Other languages might be added in retail though.

7. Yes, all Conan maps are completely compatible with those of MB:P, so it is possible to use them for this game.
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Roberto Lanza
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1. They have stated in multiple posts and multiple videos including the undead Viking that they are way ahead versus Conan. With Conan they had not even designed some elements by the time the kickstarter began and they had long delays. MB is basically done. They are making minor changes and have but they are way ahead compared to the previous game

3. They stated that was already in the goals is in the box and anything else they do will be in add-on boxes

4. More are coming. However, IMHO, this discussion has become a bit ridiculous on the campaign page. There have even been several commenters to the kickstarter page who are women who have even stated, it does not matter if it is not 50/50 men/women. I have daughters and I am sensitive to the issue but some of the comments have become ridiculous. Safe to say, more are coming.

6. They stated there will be other languages coming for the retail box but just not the early kickstarter. They stated that translation is hard and they are trying to find actual humans to do the translation. They have made a large effort just for English. I do not believe they would ignore a large market like Germany, but there are limits in terms of time. There were many complaints in Conan about poorly written rules, mistakes and translations that did not work. They have learned their lesson and taking their time do it correctly.

7. That ship has sailed. Many have made that suggestion. If one wants rectangular maps you will probably need to look at 3rd party maps

8. Have you seen the state of the Greek economy? Also, while Germany is large, the number of gamers is probably only 1% of that population. While the Conan campaign was large (14K people), that is very small amount over all.
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Ben Clapperton
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I can speak to the gameplay as I've played it several times and it's what got me hooked on the game. For a miniatures is simple to pick up and pay, but there are lot of tactical choices throughout which make for a deep gameplay experience and lots of replayability. The games design is by Mythic Games, particularly Benoit Vogt, who weren't involved in the Conan games design. Lessons have definitely been learned on the translation into English and on getting things ready before the KS so as it minimise the chance of delay. My understanding is that an English translation of the rules is well adavanced and will have an English-speaking games designer and editor working on them in Jake Thornton, and we'll get to see them in PDF form for comments before going to print. I believe all of the art, sculpting, and games design is already done, and all the core box minis have been tooled, which put MB way ahead of where Conan was when it went to KS. On top of that, Monolith have put things in place to speed up the process as well, such as buying their own 3D printer rather than using a third party and getting bottle-necked in their workload.

The Hell Hounds, Hell Warriors, and Hades, seem to be the only underworld/undead units in the core box.

I am expecting the expansions to have a board which I expect to be double-sided. I'm also expecting it to be square. Mainly because it seems as if 1v1v1 and 1v1v1v1 are game modes, and a square board suits that best.

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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redben wrote:
I believe all of the art, sculpting, and games design is already done, and all the core box minis have been tooled, which put MB way ahead of where Conan was when it went to KS. On top of that, Monolith have put things in place to speed up the process as well, such as buying their own 3D printer rather than using a third party and getting bottle-necked in their workload.

Yes it seems fullfilment part is now very well prepared.cool
The only downside imo is that everything is already fixed and if the backers really dislike some art or mini it's not possible to adjust anything anymore.

Quote:
The Hell Hounds, Hell Warriors, and Hades, seem to be the only underworld/undead units in the core box.

Well .. don't forget the Spartoi skeletons, the 3 hell judges (Minos, Aeacus and Rhadamanthus) and the Infernal Artillerymen don't look particularly fresh either ..
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Ben Clapperton
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True but they aren't in the core box . We've only seen a few stretch goals and add-ons so it's tough to say what the ratio will be there.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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redben wrote:
True but they aren't in the core box . We've only seen a few stretch goals and add-ons so it's tough to say what the ratio will be there.

True, we just strated .. although it doesn't feel that way!

Must say this picture looks promising though ..
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=392a40-1478282898....
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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redben wrote:
True but they aren't in the core box . We've only seen a few stretch goals and add-ons so it's tough to say what the ratio will be there.

True, we just started .. although it doesn't feel that way!

Must say this picture looks promising though ..
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=392a40-1478282898....
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Thanee
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Ohhh... very nice!

Bye
Thanee
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Nick Bos
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redben wrote:
I believe all of the art, sculpting, and games design is already done, and all the core box minis have been tooled, which put MB way ahead of where Conan was when it went to KS.



Honest question. If this is the case, why is the delivery date next December? This makes it sound like they only need to produce the components?
 
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seb seb2
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Faerun wrote:
redben wrote:
I believe all of the art, sculpting, and games design is already done, and all the core box minis have been tooled, which put MB way ahead of where Conan was when it went to KS.



Honest question. If this is the case, why is the delivery date next December? This makes it sound like they only need to produce the components?


"only".
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Roberto Lanza
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Faerun wrote:
redben wrote:
I believe all of the art, sculpting, and games design is already done, and all the core box minis have been tooled, which put MB way ahead of where Conan was when it went to KS.



Honest question. If this is the case, why is the delivery date next December? This makes it sound like they only need to produce the components?


Many of the miniatures are already in test mode with test shots already being displayed and painted vs resin models. In several videos, they mention that they have no mini to show because it is in production.
 
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Nick Bos
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Belsamoreth wrote:
Faerun wrote:
redben wrote:
I believe all of the art, sculpting, and games design is already done, and all the core box minis have been tooled, which put MB way ahead of where Conan was when it went to KS.



Honest question. If this is the case, why is the delivery date next December? This makes it sound like they only need to produce the components?


"only".


Well...'only'...they have a year...unless I'm severely underestimating how many miniatures a factory can churn out in a day there must be more to it!
 
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Freelance Police
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Faerun wrote:
Honest question. If this is the case, why is the delivery date next December? This makes it sound like they only need to produce the components?


KS requires creators to enter an Estimated Delivery Date to the month in its pledges, which is *stupid*. Retailers, like Fantasy Flight Games, don't even do this (they only provide estimates to the quarter) and, if you're using SG's (which everybody does BUT is still not part of the KS interface), you sure as Hades don't know how large your project will get. Imagine that you're the contractor building a house, and you have to provide a date when the house will be completed. Except that you don't know how many rooms you'll be building, nor what the rooms even look like. You also may be building a garage, granny unit, barn, horse stable, and swimming pool. Oh, and could you add a few Greek statues around the pool? Thanks.
 
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Thanee
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Faerun wrote:
Honest question. If this is the case, why is the delivery date next December? This makes it sound like they only need to produce the components?


The *first* production models are done. There are a few iterations, until it is satisfactory. And, I am not sure, if this is true for ALL models, or just the core box and maybe some more. There might still be some more work to be done with later stretch goals or add-ons.

Surely, there are still plenty other things to do. Stuff needs to be packed up for every backer. Shipping alone is like 2-3 months or so.

Bye
Thanee
 
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