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Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules Questions: 1 VP Treasure, Wintering in Colonies, Land Unit Limits rss

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Robert Hentzel
United States
Bloomington
Minnesota
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I have several rules questions about this game.

First, I have a couple of easy (?) ones that I think I know the answer to:

1. If France uses Grand Tour to end the France-English war while England is besieging a France-allied Edinburgh, what happens to the English units? It seems like the answer has to be "they are displaced," but I can't actually find a rule that technically says that. (For instance, 12.5 doesn't seem to apply because no space changed control.)

2. If Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II sponsors an artist and a scientist during the same turn, can they both take advantage of the Prague Cultural Center? It seems like "no," since the Card FAQ doesn't list the counter as one whose numbers are unlimited. But can the counter be moved to the second thinker who was sponsored? Must it be moved?

3. If a player expends 1 CP to perform a naval move that attacks a sea zone leading the enemy to retreat to an adjacent sea zone (or port), can that player spend another CP in the same impulse to perform another naval move to attack the just-retreated fleet again? I don't see a rule prohibiting it, I guess it just seems potentially very punishing.

And now five questions for which I wasn't able to persuade myself of a specific answer:

4. How does the "1VP Treasure" work? I assume that you play it like a standard treasure (after a card play), but then do you keep that treasure for the rest of the game with your other victory point chits? Or do you mark the 1 VP using some other token and put the treasure back in the random draw pile? (Is it possible the 1 VP goes away when treasures are discarded?)

5. When sea captains winter in a colony, are they physically moved into the colony so that it requires a naval move to bring them back out into the ocean zone? Or do they just move to the ocean zone to begin with (or pop back out during the spring)? It seems like the answer is that they are physically moved there, but the rules say that sea captains never enter colonies.

6. If I have a 2-regular counter in a home space and a 4-regular counter in my reserves (but no other counters), can I expend 4 CP "at once" to replace the 2-regular counter with the 4-regular counter? Or am I prohibited from doing so because land units must be built one at a time?

7. Can Diplomacy include agreements that involve more than two powers? For instance, could Spain say, "This is an omnibus agreement involving (1) Spain returns Marseilles to France, (2) France gives a card to the HRE, and (3) HRE gives 4 mercenaries to Spain" so that France and the HRE would have to confirm all three points for it to take effect?

8. My printing of the game has a New World Riches table that says colonies are eliminated on 2-3 and nothing happens on 5-8; what is supposed to happen on 4?

EDIT: This one is in the FAQ, which I did not read carefully enough. Colonies are eliminated on 2-4.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
Denmark
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1) That they are displaced is right on the Grand Tour card.

2) It is ONLY when HRE uses his HC to sponser an artist or scientist, that he can add the +2 marker (of course Rudolf must be Emperor). Since it is only on the HC that you are instructed to place the +2 marker.

3) That is allowed. It happens but not that often. Most of the time there is more important things to do than chase down the surviving ships.

4) You keep it. Page 16 top left in living rules.

5) They are moved to the colony, so it takes 1 CP to move them out to sea. So not usual to have captains winter in the 4 northern colonies, but Florida and South America is done (the later for going around the globe). If either France or Prots have one of their shared captains out, it also keeps the other power from getting it next turn. It does save CP or cost the same, but the real power comes if you are going to do naval moves anyway in Europe - then you really save CP. Also if the colony is lost the captains are send out to sea (so sometimes this is better than having it just survive ).

6) Allowed.

7) No. This is specifically discribed in the diplo section as a statement, which is not allowed.
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Carsten Jorgensen
Denmark
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Now I'm having doubts about 6). I always played it like that, but it is seperate actions, so maybe it is not allowed?

Would matter a lot for Walloons especially. Having both 1/2 markers out is common, so if the 2/4 is out and at 2, it would be impossible to build 2 more Walloons there?

A bit strange if not allowed, though. No card exists to prevent the action of building a unit, so the second build action cannot be stopped.
 
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Michael Kiefte
Canada
Dartmouth
Nova Scotia
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Randor20 wrote:
Now I'm having doubts about 6). I always played it like that, but it is seperate actions, so maybe it is not allowed?


That's generally how it's played. I see your point, but I've never seen anyone prohibited from changing a 2 to a 4 with no intermedate 2+1.
 
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Rob Davidson
United States
Orland Park
IL
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mkiefte wrote:
Randor20 wrote:
Now I'm having doubts about 6). I always played it like that, but it is seperate actions, so maybe it is not allowed?


That's generally how it's played. I see your point, but I've never seen anyone prohibited from changing a 2 to a 4 with no intermedate 2+1.


Well, it is called out that going 3 to 4 without placing the intermediate '1' is ok:
----------------
Units may never be constructed in
excess of the counters available. Players may exchange different
denominations of counters at this time to facilitate new builds
(Example: If the player has run out of “1” counters, he could still
build in a space containing 3 units by replacing the units with a
“4” counter.)
p26
====================
but, in this statement, it mentions only this:
----------
A power may choose to execute the same action back-to-back within an
impulse. This is very common with movement actions so units
can move multiple spaces. It is also common when constructing
units (especially mercenaries)
section11, p15
===============================

So, when building a '2' counter, one '1' counter would be required to be available to be placed first and then the '2' could be built with the next action, replacing the previously placed '1'.

Most of the time, no one has any problems with force pool situations like this; as there is usually a stack somewhere that has the required pieces that could be exchanged during the process (HRE sometimes can get into a bind this way with too many single garrison units about the board). But, in the above example of the Walloons, they would have to have at least a single '1' in the pool to be able to build their '2' up to a '4'. I would hold that going from '3' to '4' would not require another '1' per the above mentioned p26 quotation.

Bottom line, always keep one '1' at least in your pool; it would avoid this situation; if you plan on building 4 mercenaries at once, have a '2' available also in pool.


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Kristian Thy
Germany
Bonn
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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I'd say you would have to be able to resolve each CP expenditure in your impulse atomically, so going from 2 to 4 without a 1 in the force pool is not possible.
 
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Robert Hentzel
United States
Bloomington
Minnesota
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Randor20 wrote:
1) That they are displaced is right on the Grand Tour card.


Well, I feel pretty foolish for not looking on the card itself; thanks for humoring me with the answer!

Quote:
7) No. This is specifically described in the diplo section as a statement, which is not allowed.


This is the only answer that I wanted to follow up on. I don't see the word "statement" in the living rules (thanks for the suggestion that I look at those), and the rules also take pains to say things like, "All powers involved in an agreement . . ." rather than "Both powers." There seems to be consensus here that all diplomatic agreements are limited to exactly two major powers, though, so that's how we'll play in the future.

I did come up with one further question based on my solo playthrough:

9. If a major power weds two of its own royals with the result that "Each power gains a +1 card marker," how many +1 card markers does that single power receive? My gut instinct is "just one," but I wasn't sure.

 
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Carsten Jorgensen
Denmark
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When writing statement, I did mean announcement.

What I was refering to is on page 12 lower right. To me it seems this about forbidding conditional announcements effectively prohibits deals with more than 2 powers.

"Conditional announcements (i.e., ones where you place a
caveat on whether or not an agreement goes through based on
the diplomatic actions of powers coming after you in Impulse
Order) are not permitted in any form. [EXAMPLE: England
may not announce a deal where they grant 2 mercenaries to
France if France agrees to go to peace with the Ottoman.]"

Though I do see your point about "all powers" instead of "both powers" is a bit strange. This could be a leftover from the game before VQ, though. A lot of the rulebook was taken directly from HIS (but now I'm just quessing - I never played HIS).

9) Correct
 
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