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Car Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement, Collisions, Combat questions rss

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Fred Hartig
Germany
Hamburg
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Hello!

I just got Car Wars 4th Edition, 4th Printing, July 2015 (the little white box).
This looks like a good old-fashioned wargame with LOS, to-hit modifiers and all the other good stuff.

But some concepts are a little bit difficult to understand and so I hope someone could help me with a few questions.

A. General Movement

1. When doing a "Drift" maneuver, do you FIRST move the counter 1" straight ahead BEFORE moving it to the side?
This can be important if you want to avoid a collision with a car directly in front of you.

2. The rules state that a collision occurs when two vehicles are "touching" each other. What does "touching" mean?

ooo___
ooo___
ooo___
___uuu
___uuu
___uuu

Is this "touching" even if the only connection between car "o" and car "u" is a corner? Is it a collision?

ooouuu
ooouuu
ooouuu

Is this "touching" even if the cars are only moving side by side, without entering the space of the other car? Is it a collision?

B. Maneuvers and Hazards (Order of Events)

1. I'm doing a maneuver and while doing so, I drive through debris. I lose both control rolls and roll a "skid" and a "fishtail" on the crash tables.
Now, at the start of my cars next movement phase, do I apply BOTH results?
If the answer is "Yes" then in what order do I apply the results?

2. I move straight and hit debris twice and later in the same phase I suffer 5 damage from an enemy car MG.
I lose all three control rolls and roll a "minor fishtail" twice and a "major fishtail" on the crash tables.
Now, at the start of my cars next movement phase, do I apply all THREE results?
If the answer is "Yes" then in what order do I apply the results?

C. Collisions

1. Lets say I want to push another car to one side by doing a sideswipe.
Is it possible? The rules only state the damage effect and the speed effect but what are the final positions of both cars after a sideswipe:

Start of phase:

ooo___
ooo___
ooo___
___uuu
___uuu
___uuu

Car "u" now makes a "Drift" maneuver:

ooouuu
ooouuu
ooouuu


Car "u" wants to push "o" to the left with the "Drift" maneuver. Now what would be the final position of both cars?

2. The rules about "Conforming Movement "(p.19) are an enigma for me.
One car has to pivot...but excatly WHEN (immediately?), HOW FAR and HOW often has a car to pivot according to these rules???

D. Combat

1. The to-hit modifiers for movement are given in a table (p.27) but how does it work?
For example if car A moves at 90 mph and fires its front weapons at the back of car B which moves at 70 mph, the tables states "1/2 (T Speed - F Speed)".
That would be 1/2 (70-90) = -10.
So, what is the modifier in this case and where can I find it?

2. Each weapon hit is a hazard. So when I am hit 3 times in a phase I must roll 3 times on the Control Table.
Lets say that I lose all 3 rolls.
As weapons fire/damage is simultaneous, in what order must I consult the Crash Table?
Highest Difficulty Class first? Lowest Difficulty Class first? Can I choose the order?
I guess this is important because the Difficulty Class is a modifier on the Crash Table.

Thanks!

Fred
 
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William Hostman
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A1: Yes.

A2: Are the counters in contact? If no, then no. If yes, then yes.

B1: You don't wait. You make the rolls immediately.

Per Compendium 2R...
Each maneuver or hazard reduces its handling status – just cross out the
old number and circle the new one. Each time the handling status goes down, the player must roll on the Control Table (at the top of this page) to see if he loses control.
Page 8.
Follow the rule AS WRITTEN, and this is simple.
Maneuver - roll; on success then encounter that hazard, and roll again.

And, unless you exceed 50 MPH, you're not ever going to cross the hazard first.

B2:
Nope... you apply the skids when they happen. Which means the second inch isn't forward.
So...
maneveur 1, fail. Roll on table 1.
THEN...
Maneuver 2, fail, roll on table 1.

C1:
Two collisions.
Collision 1 is a sideswipe. Use relative speeds.
The drift is collision 2. Treat the side of U as the front for that collision, and note that 1/4" is 2.5 mph. Not a lot of oomph there.

C2: It's been too long for me to write a decent example.

D1:
I don't have that edition, so... Compendium 2 has the table on page 39:
Target is moving between 30 and 37.5 mph: -1
Target is moving between 40 and 47.5 mph: -2
Target is moving between 50 and 57.5 mph: -3
Target is moving between 60 and 67.5 mph: -4
Target is moving between 70 and 77.5 mph: -5
Target is moving 80 mph or faster: -6

That's the lookup. It's on the to hit modifers table.
Anything under an effective speed of 30 is no modifier.

D2:
I'd apply them in exactly the order fired. Note that all fire from a given vehicle upon you in a given phase is totalled.
So, if it's fred shooting you with all three turrets of his big-rig, that's one big d3 maximum...

But note: All damage in a phase is applied simultaneously, so the argument can be made, simply total the incoming fire hazards all and treat it as one reduction. The thing is, 3x d3 is usually going to be enough to make your day a suckfest anyway.
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Greg Pratt
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Fred22 wrote:

1. When doing a "Drift" maneuver, do you FIRST move the counter 1" straight ahead BEFORE moving it to the side?
This can be important if you want to avoid a collision with a car directly in front of you.

Neither. You're actually moving in a diagonal direction. If you look at the diagram on page 12, you'll note the dashed lines. The car actually follows that path when it drifts. The edges of the counter should follow the dashed lines as it moves.

Cars move like a bishop, not a knight.


Fred22 wrote:

2. The rules state that a collision occurs when two vehicles are "touching" each other. What does "touching" mean?

ooo___
ooo___
ooo___
___uuu
___uuu
___uuu

Is this "touching" even if the only connection between car "o" and car "u" is a corner? Is it a collision?

The general rule of thumb that most players use is that a collision occurs if a vehicle attempts to move in a manner that would cause its counter to overlap (even a little bit) with another if the movement was completed.

If the cars above finished their movement in the above positions, they haven't collided.


Fred22 wrote:


ooouuu
ooouuu
ooouuu

Is this "touching" even if the cars are only moving side by side, without entering the space of the other car? Is it a collision?


Again, if they've finished their movement, no. If one were to do a drift in the other though, they'd have a sideswipe.

Fred22 wrote:

1. I'm doing a maneuver and while doing so, I drive through debris. I lose both control rolls and roll a "skid" and a "fishtail" on the crash tables.
Now, at the start of my cars next movement phase, do I apply BOTH results?
If the answer is "Yes" then in what order do I apply the results?

Yes.
In general, you should apply fishtails first. Fishtails should be in the same direction as the maneuver in this case. Then you skid using the original direction you were moving (before both the maneuver and the fishtail).


Fred22 wrote:

2. I move straight and hit debris twice and later in the same phase I suffer 5 damage from an enemy car MG.
I lose all three control rolls and roll a "minor fishtail" twice and a "major fishtail" on the crash tables.
Now, at the start of my cars next movement phase, do I apply all THREE results?
If the answer is "Yes" then in what order do I apply the results?

No. You should only apply the worst result of a particular crash table in a phase. In your case, only do the major fishtail.

Keep in mind that you could still have results from different Crash Tables to resolve (a skid and fishtail for example). In this case do the fishtail before the skid/spinout/roll/vault.

Also, one other item to note is that debris (not obstacles though) only affects a vehicle once in a particular phase, no matter how many debris counters you run over.

Fred22 wrote:

1. Lets say I want to push another car to one side by doing a sideswipe.
Is it possible? The rules only state the damage effect and the speed effect but what are the final positions of both cars after a sideswipe:

Start of phase:

ooo___
ooo___
ooo___
___uuu
___uuu
___uuu

Car "u" now makes a "Drift" maneuver:

ooouuu
ooouuu
ooouuu


Car "u" wants to push "o" to the left with the "Drift" maneuver. Now what would be the final position of both cars?


Again, remember that the drift is actually moving your car diagonally.

On page 21 is the procedure for sideswipes. Step 4 addresses the position of the vehicles. However it seems to be missing what to do if the moving vehicle has a DM equal to or greater than the one being collided with (and this seems to be the case you are in).

Congratulations, you've spotted a very longstanding errata item that has been carried forward through a number of printings and editions of the rules without being noticed. I will be adding this to the list of errata maintained over on the SJG forums.

The moving vehicle (u) should finish its move, with the other vehicle (o) conforming per the rules. In your case, vehicle "u" should be in the normal position for making a drift and vehicle "o" should pivot on the bottom right corner of your diagram and end up in a diagonal position.



Fred22 wrote:

2. The rules about "Conforming Movement "(p.19) are an enigma for me.
One car has to pivot...but excatly WHEN (immediately?), HOW FAR and HOW often has a car to pivot according to these rules???


In collisions, you have conform when your vehicle has a lower damage modifier than the one hitting you. In the white box, unless you're hitting a fixed object (like a wall) there are really only 3 DM values to worry about - 1/3, 2/3, and 1. 1/3 is generally cycles (and the very lightest subcompacts). 2/3 is the very heaviest cycles with sidecars, most subcompacts, and some compacts. Everything else has a DM of 1.

If you have to conform you do so when the other vehicle finishes its movement.

One other item you didn't ask about, but which is important is which corner to pivot on. The best way to pick a corner is to use the one on the side where the counters are touching which is the farthest from the point where the counters are touching.

As to how far... Vehicle counters aren't allowed to overlap. You have to conform enough to prevent the counters from overlapping(unless you run into something else, like a wall, when doing so).


Fred22 wrote:

1. The to-hit modifiers for movement are given in a table (p.27) but how does it work?
For example if car A moves at 90 mph and fires its front weapons at the back of car B which moves at 70 mph, the tables states "1/2 (T Speed - F Speed)".
That would be 1/2 (70-90) = -10.
So, what is the modifier in this case and where can I find it?


Any relative speed below 30 has no penalty.

The table is intended to provide a penalty to hit based on the target's speed relative to the firer. If someone is zipping by your vehicle at 100 mph, he/she should be much harder to hit than one moving 20 mph. The speed modifier table and the other for computing the relative speed of the target is how this is implemented.

That said, the chart and the process is particularly ugly. Try using this, which yields the same modifiers as the chart and computation (this one has been vetted by the regulars on the SJG forums):


Firer is in target's**
Target's Speed* Left/Right Arc Front/Back Arc
30 -1 0
40 -2 0
50 -3 0
60 -4 -1
70 -5 -1
80 -6 -2
100 -6 -3
120 -6 -4
140 -6 -5
160+ -6 -6

* If moving the same direction
(firer and target are in each other's opposite
firing arcs, i.e. right and left or front and back),
reduce the Target's Speed by the Firer's Speed.

** If firer is in multiple arcs, use the penalty
for Left/Right



Fred22 wrote:

2. Each weapon hit is a hazard. So when I am hit 3 times in a phase I must roll 3 times on the Control Table.
Lets say that I lose all 3 rolls.
As weapons fire/damage is simultaneous, in what order must I consult the Crash Table?
Highest Difficulty Class first? Lowest Difficulty Class first? Can I choose the order?
I guess this is important because the Difficulty Class is a modifier on the Crash Table.


There isn't a defined order per se. However, in general, most groups resolve control rolls and hazards after each hit and damage is rolled. If a car is killed as a result of the hazards piled on from multiple players, they usually split the kill.

Also, linked weapons which are fired together have their damage added together for determining the hazard.



Hopefully this helps. Make sure that you check the errata list on the Steve Jackson Games forums too.
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