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Quarriors!» Forums » General

Subject: WizKids Admits First Player Advantage, Offers Fix rss

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Anthony Rubbo
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http://wizkids.com/2016/11/07/dice-masters-new-rule-announce...

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Some of us tried to help raise awareness five years ago. I suppose better late than never.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/7472465#7472465

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/687839/turn-order-advantage...

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/688621/how-much-glory-would...

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Trevor Taylor
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Although, since the mechanics of these games are actually quite different, I'm not sure why you're equating this to meaning it's and answer for Quarriors?
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Mike Bialecki
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Interesting. They performed a pretty good test:
Quote:
We had a small number of playtest groups focus on trying to determine how likely the first player was to win when two aggressive teams faced off in a mirror match? Depending on the particular mirror match in question, we were seeing the first player won somewhere between 72% and 76% of games. In total, our playtest groups logged over 100 games just trying to determine the current state of the first turn advantage.

Unfortunately, they didn't discuss the results of the experiment using the new start-player rule under the exact same experimental conditions. That would have been nice to see.
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David Pinter
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Yeah, I get the problem of first player advantage. It's nice that they finally addressed it. Also a huge plus that they were objective, fairly thorough, and transparent in their explanation (should help cut down on follow up questions/concerns)

That said, I don't play tournaments so it hasn't affected me much. My wife and I primarily play together, and we've mitigated first player advantage by the following: randomly select first player, then 2nd power gets to go first in alternating draft for teams (we draft from a common pool of character cards). We then evenly split dice, play best of 3 games, and loser goes first in subsequent games (with same teams, although a player can reallocate dice for their team within the 20 dice limit per team).

That said, often my wife wants to speed up the process by randomly dealing teams and eliminating drafting (we deal 9 to each player, keep 8, and if a player gets dealt an alternate version of a character it immediately gets discarded and they get a replacement). So in this setting, I think we'll definitely need the new rule. Obviously this random deal business is...well...random, but we only play a limited set of age of Ultron dicemasters from a limited character set (definitely NOT complete) and if we're up for it we play best of 3 and then switch teams for a second best of 3 and see who won overall.

Makes for an interesting way to play without needing to chase rares or new releases. Just our approach and YMMV.

Thanks for the heads up on the news!
 
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Brian M
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I'm confused about why this is in the Quarriors thread; DiceMasters and Quarriors are fairly different games. (Though I do think there is a fairly large early player advantage in Quarriors).
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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Hold on. The rule is this:

The player who goes first in a game of Dice Masters, on their first turn, only draws 3 dice from their bag during their Clear and Draw Step, and places 1 die from their bag out of play.

What do they mean exactly by "places 1 die from their bag out of play?"
Do you draw one additional die at random from your bag and put it out of play, or do you pick one of the three dice you just drew and put it out of play?
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Carl G
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weishaupt wrote:
Hold on. The rule is this:

The player who goes first in a game of Dice Masters, on their first turn, only draws 3 dice from their bag during their Clear and Draw Step, and places 1 die from their bag out of play.

What do they mean exactly by "places 1 die from their bag out of play?"
Do you draw one additional die at random from your bag and put it out of play, or do you pick one of the three dice you just drew and put it out of play?


Typically "out of play" would mean it will go the used pile at the end of the turn, but cannot be used for anything during this turn. Since some cards affect dice in the used pile, I'm assuming it's out of play to prevent this. So you draw 3 dice to roll, then draw one more that sits out.

I think?
 
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King of the Wood
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Carl G is correct. Remember Out of Play and Used Pile are different things
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Gladiator Posse
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Here's the rule discussion in a Dice Masters forum:
Wizkids 1st turn rule change...
 
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