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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » General

Subject: Editable FAQ (Google Doc) rss

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KickAClay Bobling
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Please feel free to add to the Living FAQ Doc at

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ojXWrpk6JsyTgwGKUURa71m...

Enjoy
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Benji
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The entry about beng allowed to swing around space lanes directly contradicts the rulebook (which says you are allowed to swing around systems and only when establishing a new space lane). Even if it comes from GF9, I would not qualify this as a clarification.
 
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James J

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Benji68 wrote:
The entry about beng allowed to swing around space lanes directly contradicts the rulebook (which says you are allowed to swing around systems and only when establishing a new space lane). Even if it comes from GF9, I would not qualify this as a clarification.


Except GF9's interpretation of the rules trumps your own. That's the entire point of a FAQ isn't it? To address all the oddball questions?

This was clarified in response to a strategy where someone might try to prevent any connections to their vulnerable worlds by maxing out the space lane connections. Except that some or most of the lanes would be open-ended with ships parked in them to keep them from disappearing. Allowing someone to swing one of those lanes around to make a connection from the other side mitigates this in most cases.
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Benji
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japester1 wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
The entry about beng allowed to swing around space lanes directly contradicts the rulebook (which says you are allowed to swing around systems and only when establishing a new space lane). Even if it comes from GF9, I would not qualify this as a clarification.


Except GF9's interpretation of the rules trumps your own. That's the entire point of a FAQ isn't it? To address all the oddball questions?

This was clarified in response to a strategy where someone might try to prevent any connections to their vulnerable worlds by maxing out the space lane connections. Except that some or most of the lanes would be open-ended with ships parked in them to keep them from disappearing. Allowing someone to swing one of those lanes around to make a connection from the other side mitigates this in most cases.


Except it is not my interpretation of the rules, but it is what the rules explicitely say. According to them, two sytems may be connected (and a floating system moved), if a newly placed space lane has the right length to connect those two systems. If this is supposed to mean that i may also move lanes with open ends, i would like to know under what condition and what i may connect them to (do i still have to roll when leaving a system? Do i need to roll the length of the open lane? Etc...).
It would also mean that somone else might rotate a lane your ships are moving along at impulse speed, maybe looking for a new planet, and connect it to a planet you did not want to travel to.
 
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Daniel Grant
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Benji68 wrote:

It would also mean that somone else might rotate a lane your ships are moving along at impulse speed, maybe looking for a new planet, and connect it to a planet you did not want to travel to.


Yes, this is allowed. Systems and lanes are not "fixed" unless they are connected to two other systems.

You can move them on your own turn if the movement completes your move.

Let's say the Klingons impulse out from Delta IV and create a new 4 lane. They stop two sectors in and the Klingon player has no more Commands. My turn is next. I'm the Federation and my fleet is warping from Risa. I can swing the new 4 lane to connect to Risa and exit warp in front of the Klingons.

The Romulan player could not move the new 4 lane to connect to Risa because it would not complete any of his moves and it's not his turn.
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James J

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Based on GF9's response, I believe Daniel has it right. Sure, the rules don't specifically cover this, but they don't prevent it merely by omission.

In simplest terms, I am now teaching it like this: To join floating elements requires a move command (impulse or warp). "Floating elements" are either lanes with a system at one end or a system with only one lane attached. As long as you are in one of those two elements, and the other exists, you can join them (assuming they physically fit) without having to roll anything. You only need to roll a new lane if you want to create one when leaving a system. If someone else rolled one, there's no need to roll again.
 
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Benji
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Again:"Believing" he might have it right doesn't make this much of a "clarification".

So you believe i don't have to roll a die when leaving a system through a not yet connected lane (even tough the rules explicitely say so)? Can i just rotate any lane that fits? Or do i need to roll a die and there needs to be a floating lane of the same length?

If this mechanism was really intended, i think the rules would need to mention it. To be honest, it seems more like someone at GF9 was trying to come up with a quick answer without checking first.
 
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James J

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Benji68 wrote:
Again:"Believing" he might have it right doesn't make this much of a "clarification".

So you believe i don't have to roll a die when leaving a system through a not yet connected lane (even tough the rules explicitely say so)? Can i just rotate any lane that fits?


Daniel is rephrasing GF9's answer in an effort to make this clearer for you. It's not as if the two of us are just making it up.

And the answer to the above is "yes". The rules don't explicitly lay out every conceivable possibility, and GF9's answer to this rare situation hews to the spirit of those rules.

Quote:
Keep in mind though, that a System is only Fixed when it's connected to two other Systems, regardless of how many Space Lanes are dangling from it. Also, a Space Lane that isn't attached to a System can be swung around too. It’s also worth noting that the presence of rival ships or nodes in Floating System or Lane does not prevent another player from moving it or connecting to it. Sending out a bunch of dangling Space Lanes often makes it easier to connect to your Systems, since the length of the Lanes has already been determined.


It's going to be rare for a player to roll what are essentially "dummy" space lanes to try and barricade a system. This ruling means that strategy will actually backfire, since your rival has already done half the work for you. A lane can only connect to a system, so if you are on a system and spend a move, you can connect to one of those existing lanes by swinging it around. You don't need to roll anything (unless you want to) because the lanes already exist and are awaiting connections.

If you don't want to accept the publisher's answer, that's your prerogative. But it makes sense as ruled. And from what I've seen, GF9 doesn't rush unqualified answers out. In fact, I once contacted them directly about a thread that had gone on for a while, and they said they were waiting to hear back from the game designers before answering anything.
 
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Benji
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japester1 wrote:

If you don't want to accept the publisher's answer, that's your prerogative. But it makes sense as ruled. And from what I've seen, GF9 doesn't rush unqualified answers out. In fact, I once contacted them directly about a thread that had gone on for a while, and they said they were waiting to hear back from the game designers before answering anything.


I would love to follow (and accept) the ruling - unfortunately i can't, since unlike with the written rules, now i don't know what i am supposed to do anymore.

Since if you accept the ruling, just tell me how it works:

- Does it cost an order to rotate an existing space lane?
- Do i still have to roll the die before i leave a system, even if i don't intend to place a new lane?
- May i use any lane that reaches the planet, or just one that matches the result of the die (instead of placing a new one)?
- Are there other conditions before you can roitate a space lane?
- How do you know your answers (if you have them) are correct?
 
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James J

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Benji68 wrote:

Since if you accept the ruling, just tell me how it works:

- Does it cost an order to rotate an existing space lane?
- Do i still have to roll the die before i leave a system, even if i don't intend to place a new lane?
- May i use any lane that reaches the planet, or just one that matches the result of the die (instead of placing a new one)?
- Are there other conditions before you can roitate a space lane?
- How do you know your answers (if you have them) are correct?


I think this is a lot simpler than you are making it. Maybe it would make more sense to stop looking at the "Making Connections" example on pg14 so rigidly, as if that were the only way to connect two systems. Instead, consider pg13's "Fixed vs Floating Systems" (emphasis mine). Note that it doesn't refer to space lanes being fixed. Ever. Just systems. The space lanes only become "fixed" because they happen to be between two fixed system discs. If not, and only one system disc is fixed, both the other disc and the lane it is attached to can float freely.

So we know a lane with two system discs will float unless both discs are fixed. Further, we know a lane with only one disc connected to it is ephemeral--it actually ceases to exist the minute it is empty of ships (including ships that have gone to warp). So we have a decreasing order of importance here. It goes against this trend to suddenly fix in place a lane that will cease to exist should the ship within it leave. Even if that ship were still there, and somehow a system disc were placed at the end, that lane and new disc would still meet the definition of "floating" and both the lane and the disc (along with any ships in either) could be swung around by any player seeking to make a connection the traditional way on pg14. In other words, the presence of a ship has no bearing on fixed vs floating.

If you can swing a disc and lane as a floating system, simply treat an open-ended lane with a ship in it the same way, minus the system disc. So to answer your question:
1) Yes, it would still cost a command to make a connection from the system disc you are on to the existing space lane you want to connect to. Connections are always made via movement (or card effects, like "Q"). Spend your command, move your ship off the disc and into the lane. It only gets weird if your rival has parked their ship at the end of the lane closest to you. In that case, I would not violate the rule about entering an occupied sector and would end my movement while still on the system disc, however you still rotate the lane and connect it to your disc (with you and your rival now in adjacent sectors).
2) The lane is already rolled, as GF9 stated up above, so the other player has done that part of the work for you. If you know the length will work, just spend your move and rotate it to your disc.
3) N/A because of #2
4) Not sure what you mean. Follow the same rules as if you were connecting two systems, minus the need to roll for a new lane. (ie, you can't pick the lane up to avoid hitting other fixed discs/lanes)
5) Once GF9 chimed in, it struck me as logical. True, it doesn't follow the exact way of making a connection on pg14, but as I've hopefully explained up above, it does follow all other rules including a logical order of importance for fixed systems-->floating systems-->open-ended space lanes as laid out by other rules. Plus, their answer prevents this particular cheap tactic from being viable as a turtling strategy, which is against the spirit of the game. (You can still turtle, but it's much harder than just pushing ships into empty lanes.)
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