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Subject: Games that need a Tune Up rss

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Brian Fouts
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I've got a few older games in my collection that I love, and they have great components, but they suffer from some design flaws. I'm thinking about trying to come up with variants for them. Do you have any games like this?

-Great components and/or beloved theme
-Probably Older
-Not a great game, but could be much better with 1 or 2 rules changes to bring them up to modern standards
-Good core ideas
 
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Kevin Buchanan
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I've been working on and off on tuning up Minion Hunter. At it's core I think it's a good game, but it doesn't match up to it's modern genre-mates. It's mainly the cards and playing pieces I've been tuning up, but recent plays made me turn my attention to the hospital rules (after someone got trapped there on our last game) and the contact rules.

That said, I still prefer playing this to sitting through a game of Arkham Horror, but I'm weird like that.
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Selwyn Hope
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Mostly culling the play time of titles like Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) or Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization so that you could have a game in 2 hours.

While they are a blast to play, setting aside a weekend makes them rarely played
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Lluluien
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I've seen lots of minor examples of this, but last time I went to Geekway I saw an example that really was a crying, horrible shame. How To Serve Man is thematic gold that would've been a grand slam if it had been play-tested and had the judge cards tuned, but those cards are so grossly unbalanced that the game is almost unplayable.
 
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Peter Bowie
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Cesspit wrote:
Mostly culling the play time of titles like Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) or Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization so that you could have a game in 2 hours.

While they are a blast to play, setting aside a weekend makes them rarely played


Compress them down and you get stuff like Kemet or Eclipse - games that kinda fit the principle of civ games and space operas in principle, but lack the epic scope.
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Ludvig Stigsson
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I really want to love Inn-Fighting but it seems to go on forever, in slow motion. I guess I would love the game if it would be more like King of Tokyo mixed with Bang the dice game.
 
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P Santos
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Ristorante Italia. Good theme, engaging mechanics, but some minor imbalance that could be fixed in a revised or 2nd edition. Things like the amount of money wines bring or the difficulty of going up the Cook-o-meter that leads to leader increasing his lead even further and those behind falling even further behind.

There are lots of old games that could immensely benefit from a revised/2nd edition. Why wouldn't those Kickstarter guys just kickstarter a revised/upgraded old game instead of launching a new half-baked ones?
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Matt Brown
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Cesspit wrote:
Mostly culling the play time of titles like Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) or Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization so that you could have a game in 2 hours.

While they are a blast to play, setting aside a weekend makes them rarely played


You don't need to set aside a weekend to play TtA.
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Max Power
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For my old busted games I just create a drinking game variant and generally feel better about it in no timecool
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Bgfouts wrote:
I've got a few older games in my collection that I love, and they have great components, but they suffer from some design flaws. I'm thinking about trying to come up with variants for them. Do you have any games like this?
It's hard to make a balanced variant. You're much more likely to break the game in some way. And it's probably going to get broken in a way that isn't obvious to you. At least until someone else sees it and shows you how your changes can be abused. Coming up with a new variant and testing it enough that you're confident it is a good variant isn't worth the effort. Just buy another game and write this one off.
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Mindy Basi
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London Dread needs more female characters, and ones that aren't nuns or exotic dancers. Kind of ruins the game for me, but I think it could be fixed easily.
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Matt Brown
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Dead of Winter needs to dump the whole "Diet Coke victory" condition. We win, but we don't really win. Crossroad cards need to be more meaningful versus something that happens randomly.
 
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PJ Cunningham
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At this point I'm pretty sure I have more 'tuned up' games than untuned ones.
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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oneshallstand wrote:
I've been working on and off on tuning up Minion Hunter. At it's core I think it's a good game, but it doesn't match up to it's modern genre-mates. It's mainly the cards and playing pieces I've been tuning up, but recent plays made me turn my attention to the hospital rules (after someone got trapped there on our last game) and the contact rules.

That said, I still prefer playing this to sitting through a game of Arkham Horror, but I'm weird like that.

Be sure to post up what you come up with. I've been thinking about dragging this out of mothballs & introducing the boy to it. It's been a long, long time.
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Brian Fouts
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One of the games I am planning to work on is Creationary. I love the idea of pictionary with Legos, but the rules in that game are atrocious. The primary problem is that they just have pictures of what you are supposed to build. Let's say you have a picture of an 18 wheel big rig and some one yells out "Truck" as the guess, is that close enough? Also, the time constraints mean you never build anything cool. I'd like to find a way to increase the build time and solve the ambiguity problem.
 
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Brian Fouts
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ironregime wrote:
At this point I'm pretty sure I have more 'tuned up' games than untuned ones.


What are some of your favorites? Do you have the rules written down to share?
 
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PJ Cunningham
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Bgfouts wrote:
ironregime wrote:
At this point I'm pretty sure I have more 'tuned up' games than untuned ones.


What are some of your favorites? Do you have the rules written down to share?

I don't have the docs handy at the moment for a lot of this stuff, but I can probably share them at some point later.

Older Eagle Games are prime candidates for modernization, as they have fantastic components but sometimes their rules need a little extra lovin'. I updated and streamlined War! Age of Imperialism and The American Civil War last year. I'm planning to do the same for the Eagle Games version of Sid Meier's Civilization eventually.



Older miniatures games like De Bellis Antiquitatis are inaccessible for modern/casual players who can't invest lots of time and money into building armies of figures and figuring out complex rules filled with exceptions. So I'm in the process of updated and simplifying the DBA rules and putting the armies on cards so that they can be transported, learned, and played easily, quickly, and cheaply anywhere. Still in the playtesting phase.



I stole some simple tweaks from Watson & Holmes to update 221B Baker Street, replacing the roll-and-move mechanic with a bidding process for destinations, and putting the clues on cards instead of in a shared clue book.

My simple tweak to make older editions of Talisman more playable is to double the starting Strength and Craft of all players. This makes the game much shorter and significantly reduces the chances of a runaway leader.



There are quite a few games that don't need a "tune up", per se, but are a little too simple or samey to maintain long-term interest. Catan, for example, got old after a while. The addition of a variant deck (a hundred or so variant rules on cards dealt randomly) spiced it back up for me. Now each time we play, we draft variant cards and everyone has a chance to change up the rules of the game, making no two games alike.



Those are some I remember off the top of my head.
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Larry L
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matthean wrote:
Dead of Winter needs to dump the whole "Diet Coke victory" condition. We win, but we don't really win. Crossroad cards need to be more meaningful versus something that happens randomly.


There is no diet coke victory. Each player either wins or loses. It is one of the nicer aspects of the game (compared to games that actually have win and win-more conditions.)
 
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Matt Brown
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RingelTree wrote:
matthean wrote:
Dead of Winter needs to dump the whole "Diet Coke victory" condition. We win, but we don't really win. Crossroad cards need to be more meaningful versus something that happens randomly.


There is no diet coke victory. Each player either wins or loses. It is one of the nicer aspects of the game (compared to games that actually have win and win-more conditions.)


Let me know how it feels when everybody else on your side wins except for you.
 
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jay
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I was confused a bit. Where I grew up, getting tuned up was slang for beating someone up.

Star Wars: Rebellion gets my vote. There are so many cool potential things in the game that end in rolling dice and likely feeling frustrated.

EDIT:come to think of it, I did want to tune it up after I first played it.angry
 
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Larry L
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matthean wrote:
RingelTree wrote:
matthean wrote:
Dead of Winter needs to dump the whole "Diet Coke victory" condition. We win, but we don't really win. Crossroad cards need to be more meaningful versus something that happens randomly.


There is no diet coke victory. Each player either wins or loses. It is one of the nicer aspects of the game (compared to games that actually have win and win-more conditions.)


Let me know how it feels when everybody else on your side wins except for you.


? Sorry, I misunderstand what you mean by "diet coke victory". We win but we don't really win? You either win or lose, there is no "win but not really win".

One player losing: This happens a lot in some games I play, such as dungeon crawls and social deduction games. I have no problem with it when I am the solitary loser (or one of the winners either).
 
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Kevin Buchanan
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ironregime wrote:
Bgfouts wrote:
[q="ironregime"]At this point I'm pretty sure I have more 'tuned up' games than untuned ones.

I don't have the docs handy at the moment for a lot of this stuff, but I can probably share them at some point later.

Older Eagle Games are prime candidates for modernization, as they have fantastic components but sometimes their rules need a little extra lovin'. I updated and streamlined War! Age of Imperialism and The American Civil War last year. I'm planning to do the same for the Eagle Games version of Sid Meier's Civilization eventually.


Those are some I remember off the top of my head.


I still have my copy of WAR!, so it'd be interesting to see what you came up with.

Meanwhile..

claudermilk wrote:
oneshallstand wrote:
I've been working on and off on tuning up Minion Hunter. At it's core I think it's a good game, but it doesn't match up to it's modern genre-mates. It's mainly the cards and playing pieces I've been tuning up, but recent plays made me turn my attention to the hospital rules (after someone got trapped there on our last game) and the contact rules.

That said, I still prefer playing this to sitting through a game of Arkham Horror, but I'm weird like that.

Be sure to post up what you come up with. I've been thinking about dragging this out of mothballs & introducing the boy to it. It's been a long, long time.


At the moment, it's unshareable as I used art from a variety of sources for the cards, so definitely and "In-House" project, but I posted a few pics of them as they stand on the Minion Hunter page here...





I've got the minis from "When Darkness Comes" set aside for painting, as they fit the bill pretty well and the other things are in note or rough-draft card form.




 
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