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Ian Finn
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It appears the RAW requires the players to go around the table at the start of each Fight Turn like so:

Rob: "Okay, new turn. Everyone declare their hand-held objects."

John: "My Lawman is holding a Peacekeeper Pistol and an Indian Hatchet."

Lisa: "My Piano Player is holding a pickaxe and a knife."

Rob: "My Marshall is holding a shotgun."

The lantern-holder then rolls to Hold Back the Darkness.

I have never seen any game group, live or on video, do this. Instead, the players in the game groups I've seen don't declare anything at the start of the Turn, but during their character's Activation they make sure not to use more than two-hand's-worth of objects. This method plays much smoother, and I suspect that's the reason I haven't seen anyone use the "Declare at the start of the Turn" rule.

I suppose the argument in favor of declaring hand-held objects at the start of each Fight Turn is that it prevents characters that activate later in the Turn from choosing their hand-held objects based on knowledge they didn't have at the top of the Turn.

I get that, but the game already has a lot of abstraction with respect to the timing of events, so allowing a player to declare his character's hand-held objects at the start of his Activation doesn't seem outside the game's abstraction envelope. Also, allowing the character to declare hand-held objects during his Activation would eliminate the disruption to the flow of play the current "declare at the start of the turn" rule causes.

I know the obvious answer is "It's your game, play it and house-rule it however you want." But I'd really like to know whether the majority of SoB players execute a "declare what's in your hands" step at the beginning of each and every Fight Turn.




 
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Drake Coker
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I certainly don't, it's much too annoying.

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Klutz
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We don't declare at the start of the turn, but that's mostly because all our characters use the exact same items every round.

However, in our last mission my Bandito picked up a third one-handed gun and might switch between them depending on the situation, so I might have to declare if I want to be 100% by-the-book.

My Bandito now has: a standard pistol, The Judge and the Plasma Arc!
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Max Jansson
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My group is aware of the rule but we think it's more fun if we can swap weapons on our own initiative. It lets the slower melee characters go ranged if needed.
 
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George
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There's 2 questions here:
- do you declare every turn?
- can you switch items on your activation instead of start of turn?

Quick glance at the rules and I'm not seeing anything about going around every turn declaring out loud. We certainly don't do that, and many times players don't have anything to swap anyway.

It does seem you are supposed to decide at the start of the turn what you are using though. I'm not sure we'd ever care enough to enforce that, but that seems to be what the rules say.

pg18 wrote:
At the start of every turn, each Hero may decide what Items they want to assign to their two Hand slots. Any other unassigned Items the Hero has that require one or two Hands to use, do not give the Hero any benefit from their card text.
Note that assigning Items to your Hand slots ‘at the start of the turn’ is usually only important during a Fight and it is assumed that the Hero can swap different Items into and out of their Hands when there are no Enemies on the board. You may still only ever use two Hand slots at any given time though.

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J M
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I try to remind players that they need to do this. We do it at my end of the table (usually five, sometimes six players) because I need to set my initiative (equip bow or not) and the gunslinger needs to choose one or two guns (to trigger abilities/crits).
 
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Brian M
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We houseruled it to deciding what to use on your action, rather than at the start of the turn. Deciding at the start of the turn is trivial for high-initiative ranged characters, who are already the best, and a pain for low-initiative melee characters, who are already the worst.
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Jee Fu
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The rules say that equipment switching (including Clothing - see the Cynder Rules) happens at the start of the Turn and only at the start of the Turn. So yes, I enforce this rule as I would any other. It's part of the strategy. You're not supposed to be able to have your equipment choices respond to things that are happening in the same Turn.

We use tiny wooden pieces shaped like Hands and place on the cards to denote what we have equipped.

- Jee
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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We've always interpreted it as meaning the start of that player's turn, not the whole round. Makes it flow a lot better (no one is holding anyone up deciding what to equip).

-shnar
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Adam Canning
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Inspector Jee wrote:
The rules say that equipment switching (including Clothing - see the Cynder Rules) happens at the start of the Turn and only at the start of the Turn. So yes, I enforce this rule as I would any other. It's part of the strategy. You're not supposed to be able to have your equipment choices respond to things that are happening in the same Turn.

We use tiny wooden pieces shaped like Hands and place on the cards to denote what we have equipped.

- Jee


We do much the same except we tap or flip face down equipment that isn't in Hand/Worn

shnar wrote:
We've always interpreted it as meaning the start of that player's turn, not the whole round. Makes it flow a lot better (no one is holding anyone up deciding what to equip).

-shnar


Players don't have turns and thus there are timing issues. Such as but not limited to Legendary and Tiny Hat usage and Faith generation (Can you switch the Holy Book whose Faith you've already used that turn for a Bone Saw? What if you switch back next turn? for example)
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Andreas Lieberoth Wadum
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We tend to just manage worn items etc. out of turn, when there are no enemies on the board.

In combat situations, we defer to the kind of attack made on the last turn. Then that's the weapon in your hand until it's your turn again.

Pretty slick and easy. Never led to any problems worth enforcing more strict management over.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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the rule forces a player to judge how the situation will evolve until his activation.
changes in that situation might make a weapon less viable or even useless.
in that respect it adds a tactical layer and slightly increases the difficulty in fights.

its not easy to enforce as it might feel disturbing for some players if they easily forget to declare it, ie might lessen the fun of the game for them, certainly for more casual gamers.
 
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MT Dav

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In my games we just play that you can draw weapons and similar things but you can't swap cloths and other large items around. You can't take your outlaw armor off in a fight and switch to armor of the fallen--that's silly. If you want to switch out a larger weapon we just say you drop it till the end of the fight and can't switch back. Not really a problem, I just try to prevent min/maxing and powergaming play styles.
 
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Jee Fu
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I am consistently amazed by the sheer number of people who have no problem changing the core mechanics of this (or any other) game. That's not a dig or anything, but a curiosity; it's just utterly alien to my understanding of why anyone plays a published game at all. Do you not trust the creators? I guess its like ... buying a work of art, and then drawing on it. Like you could be the best artist around and maybe your additions end up looking pretty good, but that's just not a risk I'm willing to take. I would need a committee and weeks of testing/data/revisions in order to feel comfortable messing with the mechanics of a game I didn't design, in which players' decisions persisted across multiple sessions. Aren't you concerned that you're going mess up the long-term balance? Or introduce a situation that leads to an unsolvable argument? How ... do you maintain objectivity without uncompromising rules? Maybe you just elect a GM?

- Jee
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Nick Hughes
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Camden
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I'm with Jee on this one but then as a predominantly solo player it is a lot easier. Most characters have their usual set up and it doesn't take any time at all to determine at the start of a turn what to use.
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Angelus Seniores
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i'm for enforcing it, but if it lowers player's fun then that becomes questionable.

overall, given the high randomness of the game, i feel that the impact of this particular rule is low enough that its acceptable not to use it, but yeah it really comes down to who's playing and what they find important.
 
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Eric Harman
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No, but most of the time characters don't have a lot of extra weapons in their inventory,so it's not a big deal.
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King of the Wood
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Inspector Jee wrote:
The rules say that equipment switching (including Clothing - see the Cynder Rules) happens at the start of the Turn and only at the start of the Turn. So yes, I enforce this rule as I would any other. It's part of the strategy. You're not supposed to be able to have your equipment choices respond to things that are happening in the same Turn.

We use tiny wooden pieces shaped like Hands and place on the cards to denote what we have equipped.

- Jee


Cool...Where from?
 
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Jee Fu
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Troll66 wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
The rules say that equipment switching (including Clothing - see the Cynder Rules) happens at the start of the Turn and only at the start of the Turn. So yes, I enforce this rule as I would any other. It's part of the strategy. You're not supposed to be able to have your equipment choices respond to things that are happening in the same Turn.

We use tiny wooden pieces shaped like Hands and place on the cards to denote what we have equipped.

- Jee


Cool...Where from?

Meeplesource.com! It's your one-stop shop for Tier 1 game-pimpage.

- Jee
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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dahak wrote:

shnar wrote:
We've always interpreted it as meaning the start of that player's turn, not the whole round. Makes it flow a lot better (no one is holding anyone up deciding what to equip).

-shnar


Players don't have turns and thus there are timing issues. Such as but not limited to Legendary and Tiny Hat usage and Faith generation (Can you switch the Holy Book whose Faith you've already used that turn for a Bone Saw? What if you switch back next turn? for example)

What you call "activation" we call "turn". Still makes it flow better to just handle things right before your activation. If there is something that needs to happen at the start of the round (fine, "turn"), then we do that, but 95% of the stuff you have can be managed at the start of your turn (fine, "activation"), and a game that is bogged down with waaaaay to much stuff to remember as it is flows just that much better.

-shnar
 
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Jee Fu
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shnar wrote:


What you call "activation" we call "turn". Still makes it flow better to just handle things right before your activation. If there is something that needs to happen at the start of the round (fine, "turn"), then we do that, but 95% of the stuff you have can be managed at the start of your turn (fine, "activation"), and a game that is bogged down with waaaaay to much stuff to remember as it is flows just that much better.

-shnar

Really? I find that one step which effects everyone at the Start of the Turn is more streamlined than X individual steps for X Heroes at various different times. Either way, the official rules add restriction and therefore maintain challenge (which is already a bit of a problem if you started your Heroes back before the expansions). This seems like a good enough reason to me.

It seems like Co-Op game rules are taken less seriously than Competitive, in general. It feels ... ironic, that people seem way more interested in objectivity when their subjective experience is at stake.

- Jee
 
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Klutz
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I'm a regular contributor / rules lawyer in FFG's X-Wing rules forum.

Can we all agree that, if Shadows of Brimstone's rules and timing were analyzed with the same level of precision that X-Wing's (and other competitive games') rules were, they'd need some major rewriting and clarification before they made some sort of sens?
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Jee Fu
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KevBelisle wrote:

I'm a regular contributor / rules lawyer in FFG's X-Wing rules forum.

Can we all agree that, if Shadows of Brimstone's rules and timing were analyzed with the same level of precision that X-Wing's (and other competitive games') rules were, they'd need some major rewriting and clarification before they made some sort of sens?

I've personally done this level of analysis on the SoB rules. I've emailed FFP, talked to them in person, scoured the internet for tidbits, and cross-referenced the questions that remained unanswered with their other games for likely intended behaviors. I've made only a few assumptions, all of them reasonable. I have arrived at what I sincerely believe is their gameplay vision for the game.

And I will agree that it was work. However, it all fits; it all makes sense. There is a consistent answer out there for every question. I don't think that the actual mechanics need rewriting, but do think that they need to consolidate their clarifications and errata so it's easier to get to where I am currently. That will likely require a re-wording, so if that's what you mean then yah totally.

- Jee
 
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Jeremy Squire
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The group I play with usually do it at their characters activation. After playing the Jargono Native, I realized why it needs to be done at the start of the round. He starts with a one-handed weapon and a one-handed shield that gives him Armor 6+, and I had picked up a second one-handed weapon. Before my activation I was attacked and used the Armor save, but then on my activation wanted to use two weapons, but doesn't make sense to get the save from the shield and still use two weapons. So, I have started assigning at the start of the round and sticking with it.
 
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Ken H.
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CrazyOrcGamer wrote:
The group I play with usually do it at their characters activation. After playing the Jargono Native, I realized why it needs to be done at the start of the round. He starts with a one-handed weapon and a one-handed shield that gives him Armor 6+, and I had picked up a second one-handed weapon. Before my activation I was attacked and used the Armor save, but then on my activation wanted to use two weapons, but doesn't make sense to get the save from the shield and still use two weapons. So, I have started assigning at the start of the round and sticking with it.


Even in that situation, you can still choose equipment at the start of your activation. Just don't change it until your next activation. So, if you get attacked before your turn, you can only use the shield if you had it equipped last round.
 
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