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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: O20.3.2 attack hindrances wife ruling rss

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One extra bonus to falling in love with a game is seeing a whole new competitive side to your wife. ( not to mention hearing comments like 'is it not combat commander night tonight sweetie?')

We are midway through a game and a situation arose where a fire group had a clear sight to a target but an extra unit could be added to increase the group fp by 1 more but they were hindered by orchard (2). She was not happy with this and tried to insist the wording of the rule could be interpreted as the 'shot' in question could mean each individual contribution to the group, I.e the extra unit would contribute plus 1 to the group but minus 2 hindrance or -1 i.e. That unit cannot in fact be added to the fire group since its 'shot' has failed to achieve a positive FP.

I told her that the rule as written means if you did include that extra shooter you'd simply add 1 to the fire group FP total but then remove 2 as that then becomes the new maximum hindrance of any piece in the group.

I told her it didn't matter because in either case you'd ignore adding that extra piece but she wouldn't back down anyway because she said it felt unfair that she could add a unit firing to a group and make its firepower total go down.

Can you please convince her I am right, and feel free to query on the soundness of lobbing 105mm artillery at a range of 2 hexes
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Michael Lind
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You are correct however this one may easily be a case of winning the battle and losing the war.
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Russ Williams
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You're right. One can argue about what's "realistic", "fair", etc, but the rules seem clear on this.

If she wants a rationale for it, consider the game to be saying that the hindrance makes it pointless to add that other unit since it doesn't have a clear shot anyway, and the fact that it would formally make the total fp worse is just the game strongly hinting that to you.
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Thanks! Don't worry I think I've got the hooks in her, it helps that she seems to have a knack for winning, I'm currently hanging on by a thread on 1 VP but my hidden objective gives her 1VP but I have the initiative card.
 
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Stephen Jacobsen
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We came across this exact sort of situation, and I didn't figure it out for 10 games.

You are both right, in a way. It seems anti-thematic, but if you add the piece to the group, it would indeed be a negative loss to the fire-power.

But fret not Mrs. Horseman!
You can make TWO (or more) firing groups. They need not fire together. That way the hindrance only affects one of the pieces. I don't have the rules in front of me, but if you look at the section about making fire groups and read it slowly and literally, this becomes clear.

One Fire order can activate a number of units (using normal leader command rules) and these activated units can form any combination of fire groups and/or fire individually.
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Chick Lewis
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"Is it not Combat Commander night tonight sweetie?"

Glorious !
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Paul Trad

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With people in general, and spouses in particular, it is best to give something while you take something. This can be translated as, "You are right, except in the case of..."

When a FG has one piece uphill, the entire shot gets +1

When one part of a FG shoots around a wall/hedge/fence the obstacle is ignored.

But, in the case of hindrance, this is not equally true.

You have to be strong on this point. The situation comes up constantly. I don't mean the FG...


[as to arty, if you don't mind it does not matter... Or if you are a hero. They give zero Fs]
 
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Jim F
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Well, here's a thing. Why does the extra unit only add one fp to the overall score in the first place?

If she can except the logic of that then why not an overall -1 for adding a new unit to the fire group.

Personally accepting these types of abstractions/design fudges is all part and parcel of the hobby. To question is like questioning why America voted in Trump as president. It just leads to madness.
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Confusion Under Fire
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BoJack Horseman wrote:
feel free to query on the soundness of lobbing 105mm artillery at a range of 2 hexes


There was a post somewhere in the CC forum about lobbing arty fire on top of your own hex. Imagine if you were in a bunker surrounded by the enemy... If you want justification I visited the Merville battery in Normandy and the guns had pre marked out targets, some of these targets were their own gun positions. More than likely if these positions were over ran but it could be possible to fire on that position while friendly units were still around.
 
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Dan Huffman
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whatambush wrote:
BoJack Horseman wrote:
feel free to query on the soundness of lobbing 105mm artillery at a range of 2 hexes


There was a post somewhere in the CC forum about lobbing arty fire on top of your own hex. Imagine if you were in a bunker surrounded by the enemy... If you want justification I visited the Merville battery in Normandy and the guns had pre marked out targets, some of these targets were their own gun positions. More than likely if these positions were over ran but it could be possible to fire on that position while friendly units were still around.



In the CC:Vietnam version, you'll be able to Napalm yourself!!!!
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Chadwik
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Gary Logs
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Maybe something along the lines of all units in the firing group would have been coordinated and assigned to target an area in the target hex and the extra unit's assigned area gets off lighter than had an open LOS unit been assigned to it instead.

Just a thought, good luck.
 
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