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Kemet» Forums » Variants

Subject: Variant: Less Obelisks - more positional play rss

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Gerard Dranger
France
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Very simple variant, just for fun. Not tested because we love the game as it is, but sooner or later we will give it a try.

* Only desert Obelisks can be used, and one Obelisk in the delta area (Sanctuary for the 3/5 players map or obelisk of the delta temple in the 2/4 players map).

What it makes:
- You can not use only teleport to access a temple (excepted the temple in delta on the 2/4 players map). You have to teleport and then move.
- Introduces more positional tactics in the game: blocking, defending.
2 PP temples (distance 2 from cities) can't be defended, but 3 PP temples (distance 3 from cities) can be defended with a troop.
- blue defense tiles become more important, capturing a temple may take several move actions instead of one if it is well defended.
- capturing all empty temples in a single move is not possible anymore.
 
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Matt Gordon
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Carrollton
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Re: Less Obelisks
juls2 wrote:
- capturing all empty temples in a single move is not possible anymore.

How was this possible before?
 
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Steve Cohn
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Racine
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Re: Less Obelisks
Turgid wrote:
How was this possible before?


I think the answer is "it depends on the rules interpretation" from the book.

It's commonly understood one can split a troop during a move, moving all or some of a troop with one movement action; one, some, half or more go this way, half go that way others stay behind, if desired.

It's commonly understood that one can teleport a troop and then move, as teleport does not use movement points, but requires a payment of 2PP.

This is all detailed in the rules:

Rulebook, Page 5, Section, Movement wrote:

5 • Move / Attack
The Move action allows 1 troop to move.
It is not mandatory to move all the units of the troop; the player can leave some of them on his way. Furthermore, the player can gather units from spaces on his way, as long as he doesn’t exceed the movement capacity.

By default, the movement capacity of 1 troop is 1 space.
This capacity can be increased:
• By Power tiles apply to all the player’s troops.
• By the ability of a creature
• By a DI card for a chosen movement.

A troop can move in three different ways:
A) Ground transportation:
The player moves one or several units of the same troop to an adjacent space.
B) Harbor crossing:
It is possible to cross the Nile between two harbors connected by an arrow. It counts as a one space movement action, without any additional cost.
C) Using teleportation by a pyramid:
A player can teleport a troop from a pyramid (of his territory or an opponent’s one) to an obelisk space.
• The player must pay 2.
• Teleporting doesn’t consume any movement capacity.
Within the limits of its movement capacity and resources, the troop can alternate Pyramid teleportation, ground transportation, and Harbor crossing in the same Movement, without any restriction.
(emphasis mine)


I think there is an outstanding question about combining teleportation and splitting the troop assigned the movement action: Can a player split a single troop into multiple "groups" and teleport each split group separately using one move action, creating, at the end of the move action, multiple new troops?

With standard Ground transportation, yes, this is totally legal, it's defined in the rules, you can move, leave a unit(s) behind, and continue moving up to the troop movement point allotment.

I'm not sure if it was ever definitively answered in the forums, can Teleportation be used in addition to splitting a troop?
(if it was I may have completely missed it and I apologize)

I would love to know if a definitive answer from the designer was given. From the rules I *think* this would be allowed. But, I also think each "split group" would require 2PP payment. I think? I've never actually seen it done, but from the rules it might indicate this is allowed.

Example:
Player A has 5 units in his troop at a pyramid in his home city.
There are two empty temples on the board.

Player A selects the "Move" action and declares he is moving this troop of 5 that are currently at his pyramid.

Player A pays 2PP to move 3 units of that troop to the first temple, splitting that initial troop, creating a new troop in previously-empty-temple-1. Player A then spends an additional 2PP to move the remaining 2 units of the original troop to the second temple, creating a new troop in previously-empty-temple-2. At the end of the Move action, the original troop of 5 has become two new troops of 3 and 2, respectively.

Not legal. But, teleporting, leaving behind a unit or units, teleporting again (DI card or power tile), leaving behind unit or units, teleporting again (DI card or power tile) and/or ground transportation is legal.

So far as I can read into it, and so much as the costs are paid, this should--strictly speaking--be legal. Curious to see what others think or if a definitive answer was already given!
This has been discussed in the forums multiple times, there are over a half-dozen topics on movement alone, not to mention teleportation.

~Steve (with edits)

 
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Matt Gordon
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Re: Less Obelisks
My interpretation has always been 1 action, 1 troop. You can drop off troops along the way, but not split a troop into multiple groups who go different places (either via walking or teleport).

Once 1 or more units have been dropped off by the moving troop, it/they are now their own troop. That troop can't then also move as part of the same action. I don't see how that quote from the rules says you can split a troop and then move each new 'sub-troop'.

Edit: See this thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1496425/question-regarding-...

You can't split off units and continue to move them. The troop as a whole must move and can drop guys off along the way, but those guys can no longer move during this move action. It specifically says you can't pay 2pp per unit from a single troop to send 1 to each empty temple.
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Steve Cohn
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Re: Less Obelisks
I stand corrected and edited my post accordingly!

There are several posts where similar questions were asked and answered.

This one in particular has quite a bit of information on the topic:
teleport

And, of course, the FAQ itself!
Kemet Official FAQ
 
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Gerard Dranger
France
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Re: Less Obelisks
OchreOgre wrote:
Turgid wrote:
How was this possible before?

Not legal. But, teleporting, leaving behind a unit or units, teleporting again (DI card or power tile), leaving behind unit or units, teleporting again (DI card or power tile) and/or ground transportation is legal.


That's the move I was thinking about. No illegal splitting of troops involved. You need the tile allowing to teleport from an obelisk. This way, with enough PP to pay for teleporting, you can capture several empty temples on your last action right before the night, and get sometimes 2-5 victory points (for ex. 3 temples temporary victory points + a permanent victory point at the end of day).

If you use the base game victory condition this is often enough to win the game, and feels a bit weird for the other players who did not see this coming at all. I think this is the only possibility for a player to "turtle" a little bit in Kemet. You get the teleport tile, wait for other players to exhaust each other in battles until they recall their weak troops from the temples, and get it all at once.

If you use the Ta-Seti victory condition you will not win this way because you have to keep your score until your turn comes again, and other players will put you in last position and kill your thin troops in temples.
 
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Matt Gordon
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Re: Less Obelisks
juls2 wrote:
OchreOgre wrote:
Turgid wrote:
How was this possible before?

Not legal. But, teleporting, leaving behind a unit or units, teleporting again (DI card or power tile), leaving behind unit or units, teleporting again (DI card or power tile) and/or ground transportation is legal.


That's the move I was thinking about. No illegal splitting of troops involved. You need the tile allowing to teleport from an obelisk. This way, with enough PP to pay for teleporting, you can capture several empty temples on your last action right before the night, and get sometimes 2-5 victory points (for ex. 3 temples temporary victory points + a permanent victory point at the end of day).

If you use the base game victory condition this is often enough to win the game, and feels a bit weird for the other players who did not see this coming at all. I think this is the only possibility for a player to "turtle" a little bit in Kemet. You get the teleport tile, wait for other players to exhaust each other in battles until they recall their weak troops from the temples, and get it all at once.

If you use the Ta-Seti victory condition you will not win this way because you have to keep your score until your turn comes again, and other players will put you in last position and kill your thin troops in temples.

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but if the table leaves even 2 temples completely unoccupied when the last player's last turn of the day phase rolls around, you're asking for trouble. That's a quick 3 VPs just waiting to be grabbed. If you leave 3, 4, or even all 5 temples unoccupied, you had it coming. Getting the teleport tile and 10 pp and last in turn order takes a fairly good amount of prep to put in place. Paying attention to what other players are doing and/or setting up is a key part of the game. If a player manages to get there without anyone blockading some temples, they've earned it.
 
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Andy Day

League City
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Re: Less Obelisks
I'm fascinated with this idea. Being able to actually use positional tactics would be great!
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Gerard Dranger
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Re: Less Obelisks
Turgid wrote:

I don't mean to be overly harsh, but if the table leaves even 2 temples completely unoccupied when the last player's last turn of the day phase rolls around, you're asking for trouble.


Yeah I know, this serial capture of all free temples is not at all a problem for me I like it. Players just need to be made aware about this possibility when explaining the rules.
I just saw few players complaining about it on the forum here so I thought they would like how this variant limits such move.

But the initial idea of this variant is to allow positional tactics, that's all.

 
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