$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 54.96

4,023 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
25.4% of Goal | 29 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
40 
 Thumb up
 Hide
38 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Scythe» Forums » General

Subject: Top 10! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Shawn Dumas
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Round of applause for a great game.
37 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasvik -
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
thumbsup
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Miller
United Kingdom
Newport
Gwent
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Awesome, it really is. Definitely well deserved, and I think that's now the second game in my personal top 10 also in the BGG top 10 (Though no change to how many of my personal top 25 are in there, because Agricola was previously in the BGG top 10)

*grumbles about probably losing out on the little predict where it'll be at the end of 2016, unless shenanigans happen*
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan
United Kingdom
Leamington Spa
Warwickshire
flag msg tools
mb
Good old Kickstarter boost.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Linda Chov
China
BEIJING
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Forget about whether this, or any game, is deserving of whatever rank. Just look at the designers of the top ten games, and look at their body of work. Almost all of them have produced several excellent products, and for that alone, they deserve to be recognized.

And now Jamey and Morten find themselves there.

Congratulations to all the team, and see this, and the hype that surrounded the game, as reward for Stonemaier's excellent recent output.

(And while the world is in protest mood, does anyone else feel that Morten deserves a credit on the BGG listing??? let's take to the streets!)
9 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Monrad Pedersen
Denmark
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
trevorandlinda wrote:
Forget about whether this, or any game, is deserving of whatever rank. Just look at the designers of the top ten games, and look at their body of work. Almost all of them have produced several excellent products, and for that alone, they deserve to be recognized.

And now Jamey and Morten find themselves there.

Congratulations to all the team, and see this, and the hype that surrounded the game, as reward for Stonemaier's excellent recent output.

(And while the world is in protest mood, does anyone else feel that Morten deserves a credit on the BGG listing??? let's take to the streets!)


Thanks, I really appreciate your sentiment, but this is Jamey's creation, my team and I just extended the player count range a wee bit.
15 
 Thumb up
5.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ArtSchool
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
mortenmdk wrote:
trevorandlinda wrote:
Forget about whether this, or any game, is deserving of whatever rank. Just look at the designers of the top ten games, and look at their body of work. Almost all of them have produced several excellent products, and for that alone, they deserve to be recognized.

And now Jamey and Morten find themselves there.

Congratulations to all the team, and see this, and the hype that surrounded the game, as reward for Stonemaier's excellent recent output.

(And while the world is in protest mood, does anyone else feel that Morten deserves a credit on the BGG listing??? let's take to the streets!)


Thanks, I really appreciate your sentiment, but this is Jamey's creation, my team and I just extended the player count range a wee bit.


True, but the automa is brilliant and has extended the ACTUAL number of Scythe players by a much larger proportion than "a wee bit". There are lots of solo boardgamers out there, and they wouldn't be playing Scythe without the automa...
7 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tiago Soares
Ireland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played it at Gaelcon in Dublin and I immediately fell in love with the game. It's so good and definitely one of the best I've played in 2016.

Lacks a bit of player interaction, but the time you spend "calculating" the consequences of every move you make makes up for it (for people who like srtategic games, if you like high player interaction this is not a game for you ).

I haven't bought it yet as it's sold out everywhere but it's on my must have list!

Brilliant game!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam P
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mb
Not in my Top 10. It's an ok game.

7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike George
United States
Smithville
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have been playing games for over 54 years and this is my number 1 game so far.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Hamrick
United States
Rocky Mount
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mike George wrote:
I have been playing games for over 54 years and this is my number 1 game so far.


I've been gaming for over 70 years! And it's definitely in my top 10. Maybe not my #1 but definitely up there. It has much of what I love - a MAP(!); conquest, but limited; a sense of civilization building; relatively short play time; intuitive game play; multi-player & solitaire; no dice(!). And soon, it will play up to 7 (but the shorter play time will take a hit). Jamie and co. did it up right!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
corum irsei
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Now, it just has to make top 5 in the Strategic category (to meet my prediction)...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
steve w
United States
milwaukee
wi
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
i cant wait to try a 7P game
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Howard
United Kingdom
Coventry
West Midlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
PEdorido wrote:
Lacks a bit of player interaction, but the time you spend "calculating" the consequences of every move you make makes up for it (for people who like srtategic games, if you like high player interaction this is not a game for you ).


While there might be minimal direct interaction, there's still a fair bit. Most of my games have been 4-5 players and the race to encounters plus routes to the factory being blocked (or the spaces you need for objectives) means the indirect interaction can be fairly high. I also think it increases the more you play (as you'll start to consider actions that might interfere with other players plans more).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Ruppelt
United States
Olmsted Township
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Any takers on a bet how soon it topples COB?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Challie Coppel
United States
Huntsville
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Congrats Jamey and Stonemaier Games
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mark van der werf
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I usually don't care about what ranks a game get, if people adore a game I think is mediocre or vice versa that's fine.

With some of the latest releases hitting top spots I have my reservations though. There is a problem I feel with the BGG ratings that many current games reach a selective but seizable audience. Pandemic:legacy and Through the ages 2.0 are pretty much played by people who love the original only, if you don't like those you're not buying these and these games are so restrictive you very rarely will play them without seeking them out.

Scythe had the same thing, it's hard to get if you weren't in on the kickstarter. Also the kickstarter got people a premium edition, it's not really fair rating games based on those. With more new games having editions differing in price by a lot judging a game for looks and feel becomes much more unfair, the regular Scythe is a fine but not spectacular production. The boards and cards are great, the tokens are fine and the mini's and coins are pretty bad. I get that if you have the premium edition this game looks fantastic though.

Kickstarter numbers, 17,739 backers of which, 2994 standard scythe, 1471 premium (metal coins), 9763 collector and 2915 connaisseur edition. It's safe to say the majority of people that got this game and rated it have played a (heavily) upgraded one and not the standard edition.

With Puerto Rico the Anniversary Edition was rated separately and not included into the ratings of the basegame. However for Scythe there is no such thing, even though the fraction of people with superbly upgraded edition vs regular is far far higher. They are not entirely compareable, I know. Puerto rico anniversary edition is more like a big box, including base game and expansions with minor improvements in bits, the only big one being the metal coins. Scythe's premium editions are just much better looking ones.

Still the thing is the same, price point is not considered in the BGG rating scale. BGG rating instructions don't mention price at all which I think they should. Is Scythe really that good of a game if you devalue the looks somewhat for the cost? Is it a game you would really play online for example? (there are official versions available on Tabletopsimulator and Tabletopia, never get any play it seems).

The rating system needs a revision because second editions and premium editions are doing unfairly well. Pandemic:legacy, Through the ages 2.0, Scythe, Caverna and Mansions of Madness 2.0 are all fine games but do they really deserve this much appraisal? I think they are just benefitting from unfair selection bias where all the people that don't like these games are weeded out before even getting to try them. With older and/or smaller games the bayesian rating would hurt newer editions, take for example age of empires 3 and Age of discovery. Age of discovery seems to be liked a little more mostly but the original game being not all that popular (just 8.6k votes) the new version suffers drastically from being so niche, it has a good rating but with just ~800 votes despite being from 2015 it seems destined to leave the top 500 sooner than actually rise.

Perhaps these new top 10 games will drop in time when more people get to play them (just like movies on imdb virtually always drop significantly after they leave theaters). Heck with some of these I think the consensus of people who looked through the initial fanfare is that they aren't even that great.

Majority of stuff I read and hear from gamers I play with prefer Agricola over Caverna with the most common complaint being 'initially Caverna is a nice streamlining but the occupations from Agricola are better than the rigid options of Caverna'. Similarly Scythe hasn't really been popular with more seasoned gamers I've played with, initial game pretty cool but hype quickly wears off to become a very dull experience. Popular reviewers don't have it all that high either.

All in all, Scythe just benefits from the Kickstarter release and I think BGG screwed up by not separating it into separate editions or doing something. Great games are being pushed out of the top by games which just benefit from (unintentional) rating manipulation.

I don't know how to solve this problem. I think something needs to be done about the way the bayesian average is calculated for some of these games. Traditionally the bayesian average is a good way to root out niche but popular games, like how it's keeping Kingdomeath monster or Ctulhu wars out of the top as such expensive games don't get in the amount of ratings needed to reach high places. But with second editions of popular games or with big kickstarter projects this bayesian averaging isn't strong enough, perhaps the strength of the initial average should be dependant on the game it's reimplementing. Ie if the initial game didn't have much ratings the remake could more easily reach a high rating (putting Age of Discovery higher), if the initial game was super popular though the second edition would have more trouble (putting caverna, TTA 2.0, Mansions of madness 2.0 and Pandemic:legacy lower).
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasvik -
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You mentioned some points to think about but in the end you have to keep in mind that the bgg-ranking is actually worth nothing since it is open for manipulation (e.g. people are giving games a "1" for this reason). So if a good game drops out of the Top...who cares....

And: I hated Pandemic but I LOVE Pandemic Legacy: Season 1 esp. because of the legacy concept and the changing rules. Thus, for me they are different games. The latter is by far not just a pimped version of the first. However, you might be right on Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Howard
United Kingdom
Coventry
West Midlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll admit I have the collectors edition with all the extras, but I didn't rate the game on those. I've played several of my games with friends on Tabletopia (which has none of that) and enjoyed it just as much (even though it's somewhat fiddly to play there).

The thing is, if you separate out the version, suddenly you fragment the listing and it loses credit from those that paid more for a shinier version and thus suppressing it in the ratings far more than the _potential_ for an upsurge based on "special" versions. Add on that in the case of Scythe, there are no components you cannot get as they're all available as add-ons. Also, do not forget that those who have the upgraded editions, did have to pay more for that and the cost they paid will have an impact on their rating
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mark van der werf
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Pasvik wrote:
You mentioned some points to think about but in the end you have to keep in mind that the bgg-ranking is actually worth nothing since it is open for manipulation (e.g. people are giving games a "1" for this reason). So if a good game drops out of the Top...who cares....

And: I hated Pandemic but I LOVE Pandemic Legacy: Season 1 esp. because of the legacy concept and the changing rules. Thus, for me they are different games. The latter is by far not just a pimped version of the first. However, you might be right on Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization.


Of course, ratings to some extent are useless but you can't deny the impact these ratings can have. Plus the ratings having low value doesn't mean we couldn't strive to make them at least as fair as possible. There are methods you could implement to 'fix' the ratings for these 2.0 games or kickstarter releases.

And sure it is tricky to judge if a game is really different or just a slight update. But you can implement ways to judge that, just let people vote on it, ie when a game is a reimplementation you could ask users to vote how similar the game is compared to the game it's based on. And that similarity rating could then be used to adjust the rating of the new version. Ie if people vote them very different the ratings become almost independant but if the games are very similar according the playerbase the rating could just be merged into one with the newest version showing up in the BGG list (and the other entry still available of course, just not listed in the rankings like expansions aren't).

Also the people that vote '1' to correct for ratings have almost no influence. Any rating site like this uses a trimmed average which generally has the margins high enough to cut out people that rate like this. If these people would rate a '1' or a '4' or '5' which might be more in line with their real opinion would generally matter very little. The 1 to 10 rating system is sort of stupid because the average lies at ~6 instead of 5 due to 6 being a narrow pass in many school systems. A reason I prefer the 5 star system where 3 stars the whole rating spectrum is used more. But overall users like these are not a big problem, there are also other systems in use, also at BGG I reckon, to lower the weight of users that rate like this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alessio Massuoli
Italy
Terni
TR
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Agree with Pasvik.
I for one, loved Pandemic Legacy, but couldn't care to play a lot of the original Pandemic.

Of the other #1 games in recent history, Twilight Struggle is a solid favorite that I can enjoy playing with my wife (that is very selective on boardgames), and Puerto Rico is definitely a great game, if a bit long to know enough (won't say 'master' here, there are Puerto Rico players that manage systematically to humiliate me every day of the week).

I think that the rating system gets fairer the more a game is rated, and it actually takes into account this. Probably it isn't perfect, but no game that is not great in some way (a lot of fun? very balanced? great mechanics?) ends up in the higher places.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Don Brandt
United States
Manchester
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MrMzchf wrote:
Any takers on a bet how soon it topples COB?


Already has.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten Monrad Pedersen
Denmark
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Shu1984 wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:
trevorandlinda wrote:
Forget about whether this, or any game, is deserving of whatever rank. Just look at the designers of the top ten games, and look at their body of work. Almost all of them have produced several excellent products, and for that alone, they deserve to be recognized.

And now Jamey and Morten find themselves there.

Congratulations to all the team, and see this, and the hype that surrounded the game, as reward for Stonemaier's excellent recent output.

(And while the world is in protest mood, does anyone else feel that Morten deserves a credit on the BGG listing??? let's take to the streets!)


Thanks, I really appreciate your sentiment, but this is Jamey's creation, my team and I just extended the player count range a wee bit.


True, but the automa is brilliant and has extended the ACTUAL number of Scythe players by a much larger proportion than "a wee bit". There are lots of solo boardgamers out there, and they wouldn't be playing Scythe without the automa...


Thanks. I've spent a lot of time the past 3-4 years trying to make solo gaming gain just a little more traction, so comments like yours mean a lot to me.

In relation to getting credit for Scythe, though, then while my team and I helped by making it playable to solo gamers, then the game is Jamey's creation.

We're like engineers who improve a battery so that a smartphone can get extended usage, which is a good thing, but they shouldn't get credit for creating the smartphone .
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Dodd
United States
Coraopolis
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
PaperChits wrote:
early adopter ratings, nothing more


troll, nothing more
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lord Alatar
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Congrats to the top 10 position, but I could not disagree more. For me it's not a top 10 game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.