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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: voluntarily engaging an enemy vs enemy engaging you rss

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fish face
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Some enemies have effects (eg trolls in the hobbit) that trigger, according the the card when an enemy engages you. I assume that this is different from when I engage an enemy and such effects can be circumvented if I engage the trolls rather than waiting for them to engage me. The rule book talks about engaging enemies and emenies engaging you so I assume this is correct. Is it?
 
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Andrew Brown
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the rules actually mention this: it does not matter whether you engage through optional engage or engage effects, or the enemy engages you through the engagement phase or some encounter effect, the enemy is still considered to be engaged for the purposes of cards and abilities
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Jonas Devos
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some cards also litteraly state 'when optionally engaged' so unless it refers to a specific way of engaging it like this, it falls under any form of engaging.
 
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fish face
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dr00 wrote:
the rules actually mention this: it does not matter whether you engage through optional engage or engage effects, or the enemy engages you through the engagement phase or some encounter effect, the enemy is still considered to be engaged for the purposes of cards and abilities


That's ks I realise that, I am talking about the process of becoming engaged. The card says 'after bert engages a player' I thought that seemed clear but perhaps not...
 
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Jonas Devos
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That mans any form of engagement possible

If it would have read "if bert is optionally engaged" or "if bert engaged after an engagement check" or "if bert is engaged by a card effect" these would specify a specific form of engaging.

Since it just is "is engaged" then it counts as any form of engagement, because the sole act of an enemy heading to a player is considered engaging, no matter how it happens.
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fish face
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Voske4000 wrote:
That mans any form of engagement possible

If it would have read "if bert is optionally engaged" or "if bert engaged after an engagement check" or "if bert is engaged by a card effect" these would specify a specific form of engaging.

Since it just is "is engaged" then it counts as any form of engagement, because the sole act of an enemy heading to a player is considered engaging, no matter how it happens.


Ok I accept this as the riles but my problem is I haven't seen or got any of those other cards. All I have is the card in front of me which says do something after bert does something to me. This is the meaning of the words as they are written. Not look to see if any other card is drafted such that the meaning of the card in front of me might mean something else!

Put it another way wouldn't it have been better to say 'after bert becomes engaged' but the designers did not write it like that
 
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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flyingfish wrote:
Voske4000 wrote:
That mans any form of engagement possible

If it would have read "if bert is optionally engaged" or "if bert engaged after an engagement check" or "if bert is engaged by a card effect" these would specify a specific form of engaging.

Since it just is "is engaged" then it counts as any form of engagement, because the sole act of an enemy heading to a player is considered engaging, no matter how it happens.


Ok I accept this as the riles but my problem is I haven't seen or got any of those other cards. All I have is the card in front of me which says do something after bert does something to me. This is the meaning of the words as they are written. Not look to see if any other card is drafted such that the meaning of the card in front of me might mean something else!


Being engaged means the enemy can attack you, and that you can attack the enemy. Engagement is never a one-way thing - barring card effects, there's never a situation where an enemy attacks you but you can't attack it back or vice versa. And thus when an enemy engages you, you also engage it - and when you engage it, it engages you. This is how I'd suggest to look at this.
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fish face
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
flyingfish wrote:
Voske4000 wrote:
That mans any form of engagement possible

If it would have read "if bert is optionally engaged" or "if bert engaged after an engagement check" or "if bert is engaged by a card effect" these would specify a specific form of engaging.

Since it just is "is engaged" then it counts as any form of engagement, because the sole act of an enemy heading to a player is considered engaging, no matter how it happens.


Ok I accept this as the riles but my problem is I haven't seen or got any of those other cards. All I have is the card in front of me which says do something after bert does something to me. This is the meaning of the words as they are written. Not look to see if any other card is drafted such that the meaning of the card in front of me might mean something else!


Being engaged means the enemy can attack you, and that you can attack the enemy. Engagement is never a one-way thing - barring card effects, there's never a situation where an enemy attacks you but you can't attack it back or vice versa. And thus when an enemy engages you, you also engage it - and when you engage it, it engages you. This is how I'd suggest to look at this.


Thanks. Actually I just saw the penultimate para of p16 of the rules says this and so categorical settles it. Looks like 8ts going to be nigh on impossible to beat those trolls!!! (My wife's going to be cross when I explain we played it wrong...
 
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Robin REEVE
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St-Légier
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The Forest Spiders have +1 attack when they engage battle.
Would it make sense if it always applied to all combat situations? Wouldn't it he more simple to compute it in their battle value ?
I apply that increase only if they are not engaged by the characters, when they join other enemies.
 
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Jan Probst
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Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
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Only on the turn they engage, not all the time while engaged, wasn't it?
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Koen Hendrickx
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Robin wrote:
The Forest Spiders have +1 attack when they engage battle.
Would it make sense if it always applied to all combat situations? Wouldn't it he more simple to compute it in their battle value ?
I apply that increase only if they are not engaged by the characters, when they join other enemies.


the spider gets the +1 only in the turn it engages a player from the staging area, not the turns after if it stays engaged, undefeated.

it doesn't matter if the spider engages you or if you would optionnaly engage the spider
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Andrew Brown
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Weltenreiter wrote:
Only on the turn they engage, not all the time while engaged, wasn't it?
this is correct. also if enemies attack from the staging area (which doesn't happen in this scenario that i recall but can happen), it wouldn't gain the bonus unless the effect also has them engage

so yeah, the engagement is the salient component
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Robin REEVE
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Thank you for the quick, clarifying answers !
The game's terminology is progressively sinking down in my newbie's mind.
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