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Subject: Gaming etiquette when playing wqith children rss

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Max Maximus
United Kingdom
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So i play board games with my kids, and i'm not ashamed to say i like to win...like always

so about 5 minuted ago, we(my wife and my daughter(9)) were playing a game of King of Tokyo

i have won the last 5 or 6 games, so was defending my crown

so my daughter takes a massive lead in stars, and it ends up me and her with her needing 2 stars to win, but only having 4 hearts left....

i smack her for 3, and she is in Tokyo, so i casually ask her if she wants to exit Tokyo to try and heal herself, knowing full well she would win automatically if she just stayed in....

she jumped out to try and gain hearts and i won...muhahahahahaha

when i explained why she didn't win, she claimed i verbally cheated.....lol

is it OK to put suggestions in peoples minds while playing games?

and is it OK when you do it to kids?

i say yes
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mortego

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when my kids were young (7 & 10) we would play Candyland and the likes, I always taught them to play to win (of course after they knew how to play the game well) and they knew I would play that way also. Finally the oldest beat me and she was elated because she KNEW she had beaten me fair & square and that I didn't let her win.

Good times.......now when we play (17 & 20) they fall asleep when it's not their turn or are tweeting what lame game they are playing with their dad.

then soblue
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M M
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First off, I don't like it when people make suggestions in general, because good suggestions are basically playing the game for the person and bad suggestions are trying to win through manipulation (which I feel is only okay in games like Resistance, where manipulation is part of the game itself). I am also not a win-at-all-costs sort of game player.

That said, I sometimes myself give suggestions to brand new players and in very take-that games, I don't typically mind people trying to convince a player to attack/harm someone else.

However, when kids come into the picture, I don't think any sort of harmful suggestions are a good idea. Truly, beating a 9-yo is typically easy for most adults, so resorting to "gray area" tactics doesn't make sense to me. Secondly, given that the kids are typically taught to listen to adults and certainly most kids would trust their own dad, your suggestion is much more meaningful to a child than an adult, who is more suspicious of your intentions. So no - I think it manipulating a child's actions in a game really does seem something that will a) make games less fun for the adults and b) is unfair to the child.

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Jessica Gustafsson
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Hehe, just know that she will most likely pay you back when she gets older!
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Chris Graves
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I'd say you are a big fat cheater head.
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Greg Case
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Walk her through her options and help her play better. Teach her. She played a good game to get to that point - take joy in her victories. With children the game should never be just about the game.
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Emperors Grace
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Kingtreelo wrote:
so i [as a trusted authority figure in her life] ask her if she wants to exit Tokyo to try and heal herself, knowing full well she would win automatically if she just stayed in....


FTFY


At that age, the ability to cover the mechanics of play is generally much higher than the ability to think the ramifications on the next few turns through.

I wouldn't consider this cheating as much as manipulation of your position as an authority (as an adult, as family, etc...)

When I play games with my son (9) and others his age, I try to win but I also explain to them how/why I'm doing so during the game and will tell them all possibilities when they need to make a critical choice (e.g. If you leave, this will happen. If you stay, this will happen. It's up to you to choose.) After a few games/years they start to think and need less and less pointers.

By your behavior, you can choose to teach graceful loss or you can choose to teach that others will manipulate the less abled for personal advantage. It's up to you to choose.
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Steve C
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My personal goal when playing with kids is that they learn the game and then the strategies to do well at it, and that they can defeat me in a fair fight.

I value the experience (a good fight) over the result (a win), and would rather not pull out sneaky stuff until they can beat me fairly and I want them to continue learning.

For your situation? It depends on your kids. They may have used this experience to learn a new tactic (bad suggestions) and will come back with a vengeance. Or, they could say that it isn't fun to play with you. YMMV.
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Andy Burgess
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No, no, no. That's low, man. I've done similar, but tongue in cheek, and always pointed out the better move. I like to tease my kids about it but it sounds like she beat you fair and square and then got robbed. Sorry.
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Ron Hatch
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Well, not knowing the exact wording... it sounds like you didn't cross the line of giving bad advice and after the game you did explain the strategy of it. But I might feel differently about it if I *had* heard the exact words.

Honesty and trust are a really, really, big deal and more important than winning the game, particularly with your children. I'll do whatever else it takes in-game to win, though. I *do* draw the line at giving intentionally bad advice. When I'm teaching a game, I will *often* point out times that my opponent has an opportunity to crush me.

But yeah, asking if she wants to exit Tokyo isn't the same thing as telling her that you think she ought to exit Tokyo, so I think you're in the clear. You may want to talk to her about the distinction, though, and make sure both of you are on the same page as to which situations she *can* fully trust you in.

Edit: But really, man, at 9 years old? I feel like the sneaky stuff can wait.
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Adam Boyers
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I think this crosses a line. I would not ever manipulate another player in a game like this, and I wouldn't be very happy if someone did it to me. (Unless of course negotiation and backstabbing are explicitly part of the game rules.)

Whenever a play with either a child or someone new to the game, I go out of my way to point out this kind of blunder ahead of time, rather than trying to take advantage of it.

I think you're teaching your daughter antisocial behavior and she will probably not want to play much with you in the future.
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Grant
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Total dick move even if you did that to an adult. To a child, that's actually pretty appalling.
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Benj Davis
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Not cool, dude.
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Andrew Brown
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Kingtreelo wrote:
when i explained why she didn't win, she claimed i verbally cheated.....lol
this pretty much sums it up for me. you're laughing at the fact that your child feels betrayed by you.

maybe i'm missing a lot of the context in which things were said, but i find it hard to believe that she's not even a little bit upset about this, and your response is to not only laugh it off but post about it publicly, bragging about the fact that you've done this.

bad form.
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Pete
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You can be despicable without actually cheating.

Pete (is good at that)
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Ron Hatch
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dr00 wrote:
Kingtreelo wrote:
when i explained why she didn't win, she claimed i verbally cheated.....lol
this pretty much sums it up for me. you're laughing at the fact that your child feels betrayed by you.

maybe i'm missing a lot of the context in which things were said, but i find it hard to believe that she's not even a little bit upset about this, and your response is to not only laugh it off but post about it publicly, bragging about the fact that you've done this.

bad form.

Ah. Thanks.

The whole thing FELT more dirty than it seemed like it ought to logically... and this is why. I think you nailed it.
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James Lautermilch
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I once got banned for saying exactly what I thought of a person like you in a somewhat similar situation so I won't say anything. But I am thinking what got me banned about you.
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C M
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It very much depends on the kid and how they tend to react to that sort of thing, but in general I'd say a few more things like that and she likely will just stop playing games with you. Forever.
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Chris
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So you won by manipulating your child's trust? Gratz man, you earned that well fought victory.
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Riva
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Kingtreelo wrote:
So i play board games with my kids, and i'm not ashamed to say i like to win...like always

so about 5 minuted ago, we(my wife and my daughter(9)) were playing a game of King of Tokyo

i have won the last 5 or 6 games, so was defending my crown

so my daughter takes a massive lead in stars, and it ends up me and her with her needing 2 stars to win, but only having 4 hearts left....

i smack her for 3, and she is in Tokyo, so i casually ask her if she wants to exit Tokyo to try and heal herself, knowing full well she would win automatically if she just stayed in....

she jumped out to try and gain hearts and i won...muhahahahahaha

when i explained why she didn't win, she claimed i verbally cheated.....lol

is it OK to put suggestions in peoples minds while playing games?

and is it OK when you do it to kids?

i say yes


    You're in a position of authority and trust, and one of her two primary mentors. So you need to tread carefully in these kinds of situations. Were it me I would only proceed with that kind of play if it was clearly stated that it was on the table prior to the start of play.

    I play my kids hard. I've even written articles on it. All of that is fine. But if you are perceived by one of your own children as having stepped outside the trust boundary line you're giving them implicit permission to return the favor, either the next time you play the game with them or the next time they decide to sneak out to see a boy without telling you. So set firm boundaries on the unwritten rules when you proceed with this kind of play.

             S.

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The War Chief
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You manipulated you child to win a frigging game, rubbed her face in it, and then come here to brag about it.

Seriously?!?!

I could post what I really think about you, but as another poster noted, I don't wasn't to get suspended.

All I will say is that was pretty low. You should be ashamed. Don't be surprised when your children refuse to play with you. Your abhorent behavior will probably turn them off from games for the rest of their lives.

Hope you are proud of yourself.shake
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15 Keys
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Kingtreelo wrote:
So i play board games with my kids, and i'm not ashamed to say i like to win...like always


There is a difference between being competitive and wanting to win. Being competitive means enjoying competing to try to win, NOT wanting only to win.

My favorite story about this is Michael Jordan, who one time in college went to a teammate's house over the break and was playing cards with his teammate's grandmother. The story goes that Michael Jordan was such a competitive person that he cheated at cards against the old woman to win.

But they were wrong. Michael Jordan only cared about winning, no matter how. He wasn't being competitive, he was just being a asshole.

Quote:
and is it OK when you do it to kids?

It isn't even OK act like this to adults. What the hell?!
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Gláucio Reis
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grant5 wrote:
Total dick move even if you did that to an adult. To a child, that's actually pretty appalling.

Indeed. And not only a child, but his own child. And he comes here to brag about it! I wonder if it was a troll post or the guy has some sort of autism.
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Mike
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I would never intentionally give another player bad advice. That goes double for a child.

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Joe H
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You may have won the game but you are setting yourself up to lose the meta game.
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