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Subject: How anti-gun was Clinton? rss

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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Yesterday, I heard from several people I know that everyone they know who voted for Trump summarized their argument as, "I had to vote for Trump to keep Hillary from taking my guns." My questions are A) where did they get this idea from, and B) does this idea have any basis in reality?

(I remember gun control being mentioned in one of the debates, but I don't remember Clinton saying anything about taking people's guns away.)

(Also, regarding the ongoing fears that Obama was going to take people's guns away, what's the most onerous thing he's done in that area? If it turns out that he didn't actually have any effect on gun owners--that it's all been reasonable stuff like requiring gun dealers to notify the feds when guns are stolen from them--and the fears appear to be baseless or, uhh, you know, calculated to drive gun sales, then my question is going to be whether the idea that Hillary was going to take people's guns came from the same sources, and whether perhaps people should have learned to regard those sources with a, uhh, more critical eye.)
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Jake
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She's said at a town hall meeting that she thinks that Australia's gun confiscation buyback program was worth looking into to see if it would be feasible here.

She's famously said that she thinks the Supreme Court was wrong in the Heller case, which affirmed the right of an individual to possess firearms for lawful purposes, such as keeping them in their own home for self defense.

There's plenty more where that came from, those are just two that particularly stand out. She's pretty intensely anti-gun. It wasn't a very big issue for Obama, no matter what the alarmists were saying.
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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It's a far more rational fear than Trump deporting Muslims.
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Andy Leighton
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Captain Coconut wrote:
She's said at a town hall meeting that she thinks that Australia's gun confiscation program was worth looking into to see if it would be feasible here.


http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/oct/17/na...

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Jake
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Yeah, that was sloppy. Edited.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Captain Coconut wrote:
She's said at a town hall meeting that she thinks that Australia's gun confiscation program was worth looking into to see if it would be feasible here.

OK... personally, hearing that something is "worth looking into" doesn't scare me, but OK...

Captain Coconut wrote:
She's famously said that she thinks the Supreme Court was wrong in the Heller case, which affirmed the right of an individual to possess firearms for lawful purposes, such as keeping them in their own home for self defense.

I remember that from the debate, but am not really familiar with Heller & didn't know which part she was saying they were wrong about. Even reading the Wikipedia page on it now, I'm not clear on its significance; part of it seems to be about your right to keep a loaded weapon without any lock? which seems... irresponsible, but I don't know that it should be illegal. I guess parts of Heller sound unconstitutional, but again, I don't understand all of it.

Captain Coconut wrote:
She's pretty intensely anti-gun. It wasn't a very big issue for Obama, no matter what the alarmists were saying.

Hmm. This doesn't sound any different than what Obama was saying in 2008 or 2012. What makes you say "pretty intensely anti-gun?"
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Jake
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kuhrusty wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:
She's pretty intensely anti-gun. It wasn't a very big issue for Obama, no matter what the alarmists were saying.

Hmm. This doesn't sound any different than what Obama was saying in 2008 or 2012. What makes you say "pretty intensely anti-gun?"

I don't mean that in the sense of wanting to ban and confiscate everything, I mean it in the sense that it's a priority for her. Not at the very top, but up there. Obama's platform didn't seem any different, but it wasn't really a big priority for him.
 
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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According to the link above she did say:

Quote:
"So I think that’s worth considering," Clinton said. "I don’t know enough details to tell you how we would do it or how it would work. But certainly, the Australian example is worth considering."


She's a career politician. Of course she's not going to make a definitive statement during an election campaign if she can avoid it. However, I think there's good reason to have believe she would have done what she could to limit / restrict firearms ownership. In particular with regard to Supreme Court appointments and thereby affecting future rulings on restrictions. I think it's pretty clear she would have favoured a resurrection of the "assault weapon" ban, if the Democrats had also won control of congress.

So sure, there was no doubt a bit of hyperbole involved in the attacks against her position. However, there was also ample reason for concern over the prospect of her presidency from the perspective of those opposed to tightened restrictions on ownership / use of firearms.
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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kuhrusty wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:
She's said at a town hall meeting that she thinks that Australia's gun confiscation program was worth looking into to see if it would be feasible here.

OK... personally, hearing that something is "worth looking into" doesn't scare me, but OK...


I expect you would be, if it was something you were actually concerned about.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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deadkenny wrote:
According to the link above she did say:

Quote:
"So I think that’s worth considering," Clinton said. "I don’t know enough details to tell you how we would do it or how it would work. But certainly, the Australian example is worth considering."

She's a career politician. Of course she's not going to make a definitive statement during an election campaign if she can avoid it.

That goes both ways: she was answering someone who wanted a buyback in the US, and saying "it's worth considering" meant she didn't have to give a definitive no, either.

deadkenny wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
OK... personally, hearing that something is "worth looking into" doesn't scare me, but OK...

I expect you would be, if it was something you were actually concerned about.

Eh? You mean I'm not concerned about the topic, or I'm not concerned about the likelihood that it would go any farther than "looking into?"
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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kuhrusty wrote:
Eh? You mean I'm not concerned about the topic, or I'm not concerned about the likelihood that it would go any farther than "looking into?"


My claim is that you're not concerned about there actually being an Australian type of "buy-back" program, so "looking into it" doesn't concern you. E.g. if the Trump administration were "looking into" imprisoning Satanists, then you would be concerned about it.
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Johnny O aka Johnny Soul
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I know she said she favored Universal Back Ground checks and closing the gun show / online sale loop hole which are essentially the same thing. Buy a gun from anyone anywhere and submit to a back ground check. Sell a gun, go to an FFL and have them submit a background check for a modest fee. Who pays that fee is negotiated between the buyer and seller, I suppose. I do that anyway.

I believe she'd have reinstituted the "assault weapon" ban and banned magazines that held more than ten rounds if politically feasible. None of which affects me directly at this point. If I need to fire more than 6 rounds, I need to carry both my revolvers.

An Austrailian style buy back program would not be practical. IIRC, the Aussie Government bought back a little over 600,000 firearms and we have roughly 50 times that. I believe saying it's "Worth considering" was a polite way of saying "in your dreams."
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Andy Leighton
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scribidinus wrote:
An Austrailian style buy back program would not be practical. IIRC, the Aussie Government bought back a little over 600,000 firearms and we have roughly 50 times that. I believe saying it's "Worth considering" was a polite way of saying "in your dreams."


But it may be possible for certain classes of gun (or gun stuff). Say a voluntary buy back of "assault weapons". Or of large capacity magazines. But any buyback scheme doesn't make that much sense without somewhat stricter checks and restrictions on ownership.
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Wendell
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So Obama's got about 70 days left in his term.

And yet, he has not taken one single gun. Not one, my father-in-law's NRA-inspired feverish fears to the contrary and the tearful bleats of those who were waiting for the black helicopters to take their freedom-loving birth-certificate-doubting asses to the FEMA camps in disguised WalMarts.

Clinton would have had the same vigorous seize-the-guns program. Which is to say, would have done nothing.
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Chris
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The Democrats have been railing on gun control the past year and she was the Democratic nominee. Pretty easy to make that connection that she would support more gun control.
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Bwian, just
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wifwendell wrote:
So Obama's got about 70 days left in his term.

And yet, he has not taken one single gun. Not one, my father-in-law's NRA-inspired feverish fears to the contrary and the tearful bleats of those who were waiting for the black helicopters to take their freedom-loving birth-certificate-doubting asses to the FEMA camps in disguised WalMarts.

Clinton would have had the same vigorous seize-the-guns program. Which is to say, would have done nothing.

Future Democrats will always want to confiscate our guns. Present Democrats are always trying to undermine the second amendment by enacting this minor restriction one thousand miles away from me. Past Democrats were losers, and their records may be ignored.

(Edit: sorry, that should be green. I keep forgetting how to do that, though.)
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Chris Binkowski
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wifwendell wrote:
So Obama's got about 70 days left in his term.

And yet, he has not taken one single gun. Not one, my father-in-law's NRA-inspired feverish fears to the contrary and the tearful bleats of those who were waiting for the black helicopters to take their freedom-loving birth-certificate-doubting asses to the FEMA camps in disguised WalMarts.

Clinton would have had the same vigorous seize-the-guns program. Which is to say, would have done nothing.


Well then then Obama and clinton were just pandering to the Left to garner support, which is bad too.
 
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Sarxis wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
So Obama's got about 70 days left in his term.

And yet, he has not taken one single gun. Not one, my father-in-law's NRA-inspired feverish fears to the contrary and the tearful bleats of those who were waiting for the black helicopters to take their freedom-loving birth-certificate-doubting asses to the FEMA camps in disguised WalMarts.

Clinton would have had the same vigorous seize-the-guns program. Which is to say, would have done nothing.


Well then then Obama and clinton were just pandering to the Left to garner support, which is bad too.
And as you will soon see, Trump was just pandering to the Right to garner support. Two party politics is very predictable that way.
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Wendell
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Sarxis wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
So Obama's got about 70 days left in his term.

And yet, he has not taken one single gun. Not one, my father-in-law's NRA-inspired feverish fears to the contrary and the tearful bleats of those who were waiting for the black helicopters to take their freedom-loving birth-certificate-doubting asses to the FEMA camps in disguised WalMarts.

Clinton would have had the same vigorous seize-the-guns program. Which is to say, would have done nothing.


Well then then Obama and clinton were just pandering to the Left to garner support, which is bad too.


No, they were supporting things like background checks, not wholesale seizure of guns. That wholesale seizure of guns thing was ginned up by the NRA and bought hook line & sinker by people like my father-in-law. (Who's actually a cool guy, but anyway.)
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scribidinus wrote:
I know she said she favored Universal Back Ground checks and closing the gun show / online sale loop hole which are essentially the same thing. Buy a gun from anyone anywhere and submit to a back ground check. Sell a gun, go to an FFL and have them submit a background check for a modest fee. Who pays that fee is negotiated between the buyer and seller, I suppose. I do that anyway.

I believe she'd have reinstituted the "assault weapon" ban and banned magazines that held more than ten rounds if politically feasible. None of which affects me directly at this point. If I need to fire more than 6 rounds, I need to carry both my revolvers.

An Austrailian style buy back program would not be practical. IIRC, the Aussie Government bought back a little over 600,000 firearms and we have roughly 50 times that. I believe saying it's "Worth considering" was a polite way of saying "in your dreams."


What John said - plus this:




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Jage
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kuhrusty wrote:
Captain Coconut wrote:
She's said at a town hall meeting that she thinks that Australia's gun confiscation program was worth looking into to see if it would be feasible here.

OK... personally, hearing that something is "worth looking into" doesn't scare me, but OK...

Captain Coconut wrote:
She's famously said that she thinks the Supreme Court was wrong in the Heller case, which affirmed the right of an individual to possess firearms for lawful purposes, such as keeping them in their own home for self defense.

I remember that from the debate, but am not really familiar with Heller & didn't know which part she was saying they were wrong about. Even reading the Wikipedia page on it now, I'm not clear on its significance; part of it seems to be about your right to keep a loaded weapon without any lock? which seems... irresponsible, but I don't know that it should be illegal. I guess parts of Heller sound unconstitutional, but again, I don't understand all of it.

Captain Coconut wrote:
She's pretty intensely anti-gun. It wasn't a very big issue for Obama, no matter what the alarmists were saying.

Hmm. This doesn't sound any different than what Obama was saying in 2008 or 2012. What makes you say "pretty intensely anti-gun?"


Did you actually read the Wiki page? It's pretty clear what the case was about...

Quote:
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution applies to federal enclaves and protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. The decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond federal enclaves to the states,[1] which was addressed later by McDonald v. Chicago (2010). It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.[2]


Quote:
The Supreme Court struck down provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the Regulations Act was an unconstitutional ban, and struck down the portion of the Regulations Act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock". Prior to this decision the Firearms Control Regulation Act of 1975 also restricted residents from owning handguns except for those registered prior to 1975.


It is the first SC case to declare that the second amendment protects an individual's right to own a firearm for lawful purposes, including self defense. It also states that handguns are "arms", and thus included in that protection.

It rejected the notion that the second amendment only applied to "militias", and in fact guaranteed an individual's right.
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Captain Coconut wrote:
She's said at a town hall meeting that she thinks that Australia's gun confiscation buyback program was worth looking into to see if it would be feasible here.

She's famously said that she thinks the Supreme Court was wrong in the Heller case, which affirmed the right of an individual to possess firearms for lawful purposes, such as keeping them in their own home for self defense.

There's plenty more where that came from, those are just two that particularly stand out. She's pretty intensely anti-gun. It wasn't a very big issue for Obama, no matter what the alarmists were saying.



Two examples of many.

Yes, she's virulently anti-gun....and in that it hurts her political enemies, she views that position as a win-win.



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Koldfoot wrote:
It's a far more rational fear than Trump deporting Muslims.
Why 'DHS Sheriff Joe' would consider EVEN "bologna sandwich time-out" with 'tents' also. gulp
 
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Hillary Clinton loves guns. I'm pretty certain that she has shot a lot of people, but she is not talking about it.
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DWTripp wrote:
scribidinus wrote:
I know she said she favored Universal Back Ground checks and closing the gun show / online sale loop hole which are essentially the same thing. Buy a gun from anyone anywhere and submit to a back ground check. Sell a gun, go to an FFL and have them submit a background check for a modest fee. Who pays that fee is negotiated between the buyer and seller, I suppose. I do that anyway.

I believe she'd have reinstituted the "assault weapon" ban and banned magazines that held more than ten rounds if politically feasible. None of which affects me directly at this point. If I need to fire more than 6 rounds, I need to carry both my revolvers.

An Austrailian style buy back program would not be practical. IIRC, the Aussie Government bought back a little over 600,000 firearms and we have roughly 50 times that. I believe saying it's "Worth considering" was a polite way of saying "in your dreams."


What John said - plus this:






What does "well regulated militia" mean to you?

(Not a troll post just curious about what your understanding is. I'm ambivalent about anything but minimal regulation.)
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