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Blood Rage» Forums » Rules

Subject: Frigga's Succor + Loki's Blessing rss

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Wojciech Gancarz
Poland
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Quote:
Loki's Blessing:
If you lose a battle, you may invade that province with a warrior for free.

Quote:
Frigga's Succor:
When you invade with any figure, you may invade with an additional warrior in that province for free.


Can I put two Warriors in a province when I lose a battle? (assuming there's space in the province and I have enough Horns)

Yesterday we allowed that, but there was some debate, and I wanted to check with the forum experts
 
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Matheus Affonso
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As far as I recall, it only works for actual invade actions. So, no. You would not be able to.
 
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Pedro Ortiz
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Santander
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Seems legit to me, the wording its there, I would allow it to get 2 warriors.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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I think this one has also been officially answered.

It's indeed that Frigga only triggers with an invade action as one of your action choices.
I know, usually it's the most overpowered interpretation that proves to be the right one!
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Wojciech Gancarz
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Teowulff wrote:
I think this one has also been officially answered.
It's indeed that Frigga only triggers with an invade action as one of your action choices.

Is there a chance you could find and link the official ruling?
 
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Todd Parker
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https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1505108/card-questions-frig...

Not an exact ruling, but Thiago (toward the bottom of page 1) addresses something similar about Loki's Blessing in general. This makes me interpret this question as that you cannot invade with another warrior.
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Wojciech Gancarz
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toddpark75 wrote:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1505108/card-questions-frig...

Not an exact ruling, but Thiago (toward the bottom of page 1) addresses something similar about Loki's Blessing in general. This makes me interpret this question as that you cannot invade with another warrior.

Thiago Aranha wrote:
Loki's Blessing triggers something that's not really an Invade action (as it happens completely out of turn and doesn't count as your action).

This is perfect. Thank you!
 
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arry -
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I think the combo works, Succor gives you another warrior. I don't think I've seen the official ruling. And I don't see a relation between the linked question and this one.

Did I invade after Blessing? Sure did. Therefore Succor works. It's like that situation with the card that allows to invade from Valhalla and another card that gives glory for releasing from Valhalla. People told that these two don't combo because you invade from Valhalla, not release figures from Valhalla. Invade ain't release. Now people are telling that invade ain't invade. It's madness.
 
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Alessio Stevanato
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I think you should invade with a warrior (if minis are available). but I'm not an expert.
arry1 wrote:
It's like that situation with the card that allows to invade from Valhalla and another card that gives glory for releasing from Valhalla. People told that these two don't combo because you invade from Valhalla, not release figures from Valhalla. Invade ain't release. Now people are telling that invade ain't invade. It's madness.

I think this not a good example and probably wrong, because that figure doesn't go to your supply/reserve as always at the end of an age.
 
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David Holman
Sweden
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viar wrote:
Quote:
Loki's Blessing:
If you lose a battle, you may invade that province with a warrior for free.

Quote:
Frigga's Succor:
When you invade with any figure, you may invade with an additional warrior in that province for free.


Can I put two Warriors in a province when I lose a battle? (assuming there's space in the province and I have enough Horns)

Yesterday we allowed that, but there was some debate, and I wanted to check with the forum experts


Frigga's Succor allows you to place one more warrior on a legal space on the map. It literally says that "you may invade" and "when you invade". The first triggers the latter.
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A Frag
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I believe it works. Succor is a must draft in the first age, regardless of what your strategy may be. I'll pick Succor over any other card.
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Patrik
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viar wrote:
Quote:
Loki's Blessing:
If you lose a battle, you may invade that province with a warrior for free.

Quote:
Frigga's Succor:
When you invade with any figure, you may invade with an additional warrior in that province for free.


Can I put two Warriors in a province when I lose a battle? (assuming there's space in the province and I have enough Horns)

Yesterday we allowed that, but there was some debate, and I wanted to check with the forum experts


During the organized play for Blood Rage, we also decided that this is a valid combo. It specifically states that you invade with a warrior for free after losing a battle. Thus, this invade can also trigger other invade effects, like Frigga's Succor, as long as there is space left in the region, enough horns to supply the figure, as well as in general a warrior miniature left in your reserve.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Well of course everyone is free to make houserules but it's been officially ruled (Thiago=the game producer) that Loki doens't trigger Frigga in this case.
 
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arry -
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Teowulff wrote:
Well of course everyone is free to make houserules but it's been officially ruled (Thiago=the game producer) that Loki doens't trigger Frigga in this case.

It would be kind of you to link to the relevant ruling. I believe I follow the rules for this game as diligently as any man, but I don't recall seeing this particular one. That's not to say it hasn't been made, so if you remember where you've seen that I'd appreciate you giving the link.
 
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Flavio Santos
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arry1 wrote:
Teowulff wrote:
Well of course everyone is free to make houserules but it's been officially ruled (Thiago=the game producer) that Loki doens't trigger Frigga in this case.

It would be kind of you to link to the relevant ruling. I believe I follow the rules for this game as diligently as any man, but I don't recall seeing this particular one. That's not to say it hasn't been made, so if you remember where you've seen that I'd appreciate you giving the link.


It has been linked in this very topic already.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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arry1 wrote:
Teowulff wrote:
Well of course everyone is free to make houserules but it's been officially ruled (Thiago=the game producer) that Loki doens't trigger Frigga in this case.

It would be kind of you to link to the relevant ruling. I believe I follow the rules for this game as diligently as any man, but I don't recall seeing this particular one. That's not to say it hasn't been made, so if you remember where you've seen that I'd appreciate you giving the link.

Thiago Aranha wrote: "Loki's Blessing triggers something that's not really an Invade action (as it happens completely out of turn and doesn't count as your action)".

So i would logically conclude if it's not really an invade action - it also doesn't trigger Frigga.
 
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arry -
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But it doesn't follow from that quote alone that Succor triggers from an Invade action. In fact, the quote doesn't even mention Succor. I (along with, as it seems, many here) would think that from the wording of Succor, it would trigger off any invasion, action or no. So I don't see how the linked quote could stand as the ruling for this question.

What's then your answer for this one: I upgrade a Dwarf, and invade with him in the same action. Do I get the free warrior from Succor? It wasn't technically an Invade action, it was an Upgrade action, wasn't it?
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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arry1 wrote:
I upgrade a Dwarf, and invade with him in the same action. Do I get the free warrior from Succor? It wasn't technically an Invade action, it was an Upgrade action, wasn't it?

You invade for free with the dwarf as your action. So you actually get 2 actions if you play an upgrade, you sijply you get an invade action for free.

The question is if Loki triggers something that should be considered an "invasion". Because if it doesn't, it also doens't trigger Frigga. If Thiago saus it's not really an invasion (but should be called somthing like "entering that province") then I'd think it also doesn't trigger any related invade mechanisms.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Yes, Frigga's Succor is supposed to only trigger off of an actual Invade action, therefore Loki's Blessing would not trigger it.
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arry -
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Loophole Master wrote:
Yes, Frigga's Succor is supposed to only trigger off of an actual Invade action, therefore Loki's Blessing would not trigger it.

Thanks for the clarification. What about the Dwarf, then, or other figure upgrades? Since it's an Upgrade action, I don't get the free warrior?
 
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Gert Meyer
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arry1 wrote:
Loophole Master wrote:
Yes, Frigga's Succor is supposed to only trigger off of an actual Invade action, therefore Loki's Blessing would not trigger it.

Thanks for the clarification. What about the Dwarf, then, or other figure upgrades? Since it's an Upgrade action, I don't get the free warrior?


But it is still triggering off an Action you yourself take. I think that is the key point here.
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gert74 wrote:
arry1 wrote:
Loophole Master wrote:
Yes, Frigga's Succor is supposed to only trigger off of an actual Invade action, therefore Loki's Blessing would not trigger it.

Thanks for the clarification. What about the Dwarf, then, or other figure upgrades? Since it's an Upgrade action, I don't get the free warrior?


But it is still triggering off an Action you yourself take. I think that is the key point here.

What you say is logical and sensible, but with several rulings now going contrary to logic and sense, I'd rather hope to get a conclusive official answer than try to rely on these tools.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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arry1 wrote:
Loophole Master wrote:
Yes, Frigga's Succor is supposed to only trigger off of an actual Invade action, therefore Loki's Blessing would not trigger it.

Thanks for the clarification. What about the Dwarf, then, or other figure upgrades? Since it's an Upgrade action, I don't get the free warrior?

If you do an Upgrade (warrior, leader, ship, monster, mystic) you may "Invade for Free" meaning you actually do 2 actions of which one is invading. And hence Frigga is triggered.
 
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arry -
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Quote:
If you do an Upgrade (warrior, leader, ship, monster, mystic) you may "Invade for Free" meaning you actually do 2 actions of which one is invading. And hence Frigga is triggered.

What you say is logical and sensible too, but unfortunately, not supported by the rules as written.
Quote:
On your turn, you must choose a single action to perform.
(Emphasis added.)

Then later:
Quote:
When you play a Leader, Warrior, or Ship upgrade, if
you have the corresponding figure in your reserve, you
may immediately (before the next player’s turn) Invade
with it without spending any extra Rage.

(and similar for monsters)

Which on the face of it, looks exactly like the wording of Loki's Blessing: if certain circumstance happens, you may Invade with a certain figure. There's no mention that it gives you an action. If we try to be consistent with what we see in rules and collected rulings, then we must conclude that Succor won't trigger in this case.

That's why I'm seeking an official answer. I'd hate to say to the next guy who tries to bring a friendly warrior along with the dwarf: "Sorry bro, but the Master said you can do that only after an actual Invade action."

Of course I admit that this debate is highly theoretical, because how my playgroup plays the game doesn't depend on what the designers half a world away say, and it's obvious what the right thing in this case is. But I like clarity and consistency in my rules.
 
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Matheus Affonso
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You really can't ever let a settled issue be settled, can you? It's really not too difficult to understand that the effect triggered by Loki's Blessing is exceptional to other Invades, and thus does not allow other effects that trigger off of Invades to combo with it.

Just like with the Call to Battle issue, play the game the way you prefer, man.
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