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Subject: Kickstarter: Standard vs. "Character" Edition rss

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C Bazler
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Is there any gameplay difference between the standard edition and the "Character" edition? The Character edition comes with the individualized meeples, and "six additional ‘village’ tiles, some keyed to the characters."

Are these additional village tiles unique and/or different from those in the standard edition, or are they just the same boards with the cutsey meeples printed on them?

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C Bazler
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From the KS Page:

Richard Breese wrote:
Q: 'How are the six additional village (or country?) boards in the Character Edition different from those the Standard Edition?'
A: The additional components are tiles (not boards). They are not different, but additional to the standard game. The country boards are the same in both games.

Q: Do they have unique game mechanics related to the specialized meeples?
A: No. The mechanics are the same.


So it looks like the Standard and Character editions are identical, except for an aesthetic difference. Methinks I'll stick to Standard.
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Larry Rice
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I will likely drop to standard in that case as well.
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chris broadbent
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It's the shipping that's killing me at this point. I guess I've gotten used to having deeply discounted shipping. 56GBP is a bit more than I would have wanted it to cost, but I was willing to accede the fancy, flippy boards would cost a bit extra. But why does it cost 16GBP to ship from the US to the US? Surely the box isn't so large to not fit in a USPS flat rate box and surely it isn't so heavy as to mean that it isn't actually cheaper to ship USPS priority. And I had assumed that they could get something set up with UPS or FedEx or ShipNaked or what have you.
[For the record, I understand I'm a spoilt brat - much of the world has shipping woes on everything. I suppose I'll just have to wait to buy one from someone who doesn't like their copy.]

/whine
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Thanasis Patsios
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Man, you really are spoiled! I wish I was in your shoes

I don't know if you realise this, but shipping games to the US in bulk and then having everything delivered to backers costs less (16GBP) then it does for European backers to get theirs from Germany (19GBP)! So, I guess we subsidize for your shipping even when it comes to games manufactured in Europe...!

Concerning the special tiles, I understood that they are additional tiles with gameplay elements. Sure, there are no new/exclusive mechanics on them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're duplicates. Don't you think they add some variety/replayability?
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chris broadbent
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NasosP wrote:
Man, you really are spoiled! I wish I was in your shoes

I don't know if you realise this, but shipping games to the US in bulk and then having everything delivered to backers costs less (16GBP) then it does for European backers to get theirs from Germany (19GBP)! So, I guess we subsidize for your shipping even when it comes to games manufactured in Europe...!

Concerning the special tiles, I understood that they are additional tiles with gameplay elements. Sure, there are no new/exclusive mechanics on them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're duplicates. Don't you think they add some variety/replayability?


I agree. I shed a tear or two for the people who have 40-something shipping costs.
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Kent
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The Kickstarter page clearly states the village tiles are in addition to the standard game. What purpose do they serve? Seems to imply functional difference.
 
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Yani
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48 GBP (55 EUR) shipping to Switzerland from Germany? Are you kidding me or is this some kind of mistake?!?

This is by far the most shipping I have ever seen for a Euro-type weight/size game. A 5kg parcel from Germany costs 24-30 EUR depending on size by German post...

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Andrew Shafer
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Very interested in this game, but the end cost is rather steep. It's a tough call on this is for me, getting it from csi or the like later seems much cheaper, but these titles always have a limited print.
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Bartosz Popow
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I see absolutely no incentive to back the standard edition on KS. It will be way cheaper in retail. Esp. because shipping will not add so much on top of the price that is far from discounted for KS folks anyway.
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Ludger W.
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Another cry about the shipping cost. They send from Germany and I live in Germany and i had to pay 12 pounds instead of 4-5 pounds. It's a joke. I am out. This is an example of doing KS wrong.
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Jim Sutherland
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I am in the UK and the shipping costs 15 GBP! Now that is alarming! I hesitated at placing my order, and now I see I am not alone at the dismay over such high shipping costs for a single game.

I am now toying with the idea of cancelling my kickstarter as a protest against the lack of any explanation about the enormous (IMO), perhaps even "greedy", shipping costs being forthcoming.

What would it be like if even a Richard Breese design game does not get its Kickstarter funding because of what appears to many as disproportionate postage costs? Would it send out a strong message that people are not willing to be "ripped off" or "scalped" over P&P anymore?

I can but hope.....
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Steve Rowlands
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Jazzuu wrote:
I am in the UK and the shipping costs 15 GBP! Now that is alarming! I hesitated at placing my order, and now I see I am not alone at the dismay over such high shipping costs for a single game.

I am now toying with the idea of cancelling my kickstarter as a protest against the lack of any explanation about the enormous (IMO), perhaps even "greedy", shipping costs being forthcoming.

What would it be like if even a Richard Breese design game does not get its Kickstarter funding because of what appears to many as disproportionate postage costs? Would it send out a strong message that people are not willing to be "ripped off" or "scalped" over P&P anymore?

I can but hope.....


I just went on to pledge and then saw I would pay £30 more for special characters. Ouch! I then saw that shipping was £16 for standard game or £19 for special edition. Really? I thought I was a dead cert backer for this and that delivery would be good as it's a rare uk based KS. I had just about given up on kickstarters and I guess this is just the final straw. I will wait for retail and by then I may be interested in something else anyway.
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Robin Zigmond
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Count me as another who was all set to back this, but has decided it just isn't sensible at these prices.

£45 is pretty good at current prices - but it's really £61 with shipping, which is definitely more than I expect to be able to get the game for next year. The custom "character" meeples do sound pretty cool, but I'm shocked that they add 67% to the price of the game. But I STILL considered backing it for £75 (against my better judgement, but it wouldn't be the first or last time for a boardgame) - until the shipping cost put that up to a whopping £94. There's no way I can justify that cost for a game that, no matter how excellent, I don't expect to play more than half a dozen times per year (and probably rather less than that).

I realise that R&D probably have no control over the prices of either shipping or the custom meeples - so this post isn't for me to accuse you of ripping us off. It's just really expressing my sadness that I can't make sure I get hold of this game at this early stage, without spending a frankly stupid amount of money. Hopefully I'll pick it up next year, if the early reviews are good (which I'm sure they will be) and it's easily available.
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Nikolai

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bwort110 wrote:
Another cry about the shipping cost. They send from Germany and I live in Germany and i had to pay 12 pounds instead of 4-5 pounds. It's a joke. I am out. This is an example of doing KS wrong.

Did you read the kickstarter page? The game weighs 20 kg. There´s no way to ship a 20 kg parcel inside germany for 4-5 pounds.

It seems like almost everyone else complaining about the shipping costs, also is overlooking the fact that the game wighs in at 20 kg. Weight drives shipping costs up very fast.
 
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Jim Sutherland
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Fidel77 wrote:
Did you read the kickstarter page?

Clearly not fully...blush

Fidel77 wrote:
The game weighs 20 kg.

Really? That is almost unbelievable to me.

Fidel77 wrote:
There´s no way to ship a 20 kg parcel inside germany for 4-5 pounds.

Agreed. But still seems a lot of money for postage...

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C Bazler
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Fidel77 wrote:
bwort110 wrote:
Another cry about the shipping cost. They send from Germany and I live in Germany and i had to pay 12 pounds instead of 4-5 pounds. It's a joke. I am out. This is an example of doing KS wrong.

Did you read the kickstarter page? The game weighs 20 kg. There´s no way to ship a 20 kg parcel inside germany for 4-5 pounds.

It seems like almost everyone else complaining about the shipping costs, also is overlooking the fact that the game wighs in at 20 kg. Weight drives shipping costs up very fast.


There's no way on earth the game weighs 20 kg (44 lbs!!), even if all the pieces were made of lead. I have the first three releases of Pathfinder ACG, with all adventure packs (something like 3000 cards) and a wooden broken token insert, and all together they weigh 28 lbs.

Something's fishy about this. I've cancelled my pledge.


EDIT: Are we sure it's not supposed to say "2.0 kg"?
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Richard Dennis
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Fidel77 wrote:
bwort110 wrote:
Another cry about the shipping cost. They send from Germany and I live in Germany and i had to pay 12 pounds instead of 4-5 pounds. It's a joke. I am out. This is an example of doing KS wrong.

Did you read the kickstarter page? The game weighs 20 kg. There´s no way to ship a 20 kg parcel inside germany for 4-5 pounds.

It seems like almost everyone else complaining about the shipping costs, also is overlooking the fact that the game wighs in at 20 kg. Weight drives shipping costs up very fast.



How on earth is a game of roughly the same size and wooden component count as Agricola 20kg? Is it ironwood and ceramic tile? Someone messed up an estimate somewhere. Gloomhaven and kingdom death: monster don't get that heavy and you could bury a dog in one of those boxes.
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Steve Rowlands
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It is now confirmed the weight is 2kg. Which makes much more sense. Sadly they confirmed this will not affect the postage cost. I am surprised that so many people are willing to spend this amount. This has already funded and I worry the message it will send to others trying to fund big games in the future. I.e. We can charge almost anything for postage and people will stay pay it. A shame as this would have been an obvious hit with or without kickstarter. Although I do understand that this guarantees funds up front and reduces risk.
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Jim Sutherland
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stephenrowlands2 wrote:
It is now confirmed the weight is 2kg. Which makes much more sense.

It certainly does - also explains my original incredulity at the advertised weight! whistle But it does show the importance of where the decimal point goes....laugh

stephenrowlands2 wrote:
Sadly they confirmed this will not affect the postage cost.

I wonder why I am not at all surprised. soblue

stephenrowlands2 wrote:
... I worry the message it will send to others trying to fund big games in the future. I.e. We can charge almost anything for postage and people will stay pay it.

Could the message be "that some gamers are highly gullible"?

Many believed the game really did weigh 20kg, hence their staunch defence at the shipping price. As Abraham Lincoln said, "you can fool some of the people all of the time..." shake

I am struggling to decide if this is another example of the vendors "cooking the goose that lays the golden egg" (i.e. you really can charge what you like for a game/postage and sod the consequences)) or "the Emperor's new clothes" (i.e. where no one (except the innocent/brave) are willing to see the reality of a situation while others are being conned in some way).

But at the end of the day it is all a Choice.

Choose to fund and be happy. Choose to not fund and be happy.

At the moment, I have chosen to fund. But my happiness level is waning, so I expect that I will cancel. I really do not want to be part of a crowd that thinks (believes?) that what is perceived as overcharging for postage is acceptable business behaviour. Even by someone like RichardB who genuinely is an "all-round nice chap".
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Jason Monroe
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cbazler wrote:
From the KS Page:

Richard Breese wrote:
Q: 'How are the six additional village (or country?) boards in the Character Edition different from those the Standard Edition?'
A: The additional components are tiles (not boards). They are not different, but additional to the standard game. The country boards are the same in both games.

Q: Do they have unique game mechanics related to the specialized meeples?
A: No. The mechanics are the same.


So it looks like the Standard and Character editions are identical, except for an aesthetic difference. Methinks I'll stick to Standard.


If that's the case, maybe I'll do the standard but it's still not 100% clear to me what the 6 additional tiles are if they don't have an effect on game play? Alternate art work?
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Shane Loader
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Count me as one who wanted to back but I will wait for retail.
What advantage is there in backing this?
Costs more than retail with no kickstarter bonuses or stretch goals.
And no postage or price incentives for pooling and buying multiple.
I only kickstart I'd there is an advantage for me in it
 
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Derry Salewski
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bonnyaclyde wrote:
Count me as one who wanted to back but I will wait for retail.
What advantage is there in backing this?
Costs more than retail with no kickstarter bonuses or stretch goals.
And no postage or price incentives for pooling and buying multiple.
I only kickstart I'd there is an advantage for me in it


Well it could be another keymarket.

But... Yeah.

I'm pretty sure England is just fucked up when it comes to being able to afford anything. I have almost always been blown away and super turned off by any kickstarters from there when they's cost a third or half less from other western boardgame markets.

But I guess compare it to a splotter. People pay that much for those and they complain about the components. Here's a chance for the best of both worlds.
 
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UA Darth
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bonnyaclyde wrote:
Count me as one who wanted to back but I will wait for retail.
What advantage is there in backing this?
Costs more than retail with no kickstarter bonuses or stretch goals.
And no postage or price incentives for pooling and buying multiple.
I only kickstart I'd there is an advantage for me in it


Will the character edition actually be available for retail? If not, and you want it, then that would be the advantage.

"The Character Edition will only be available through Kick Starter at the present time (subject to the sale of a few extra which I will need to order in to allow for the manufacturers 10% margins and ensure that I have sufficient copies to meet all of the Kick Starter orders)."

If true, you may not be able to track it down elsewhere.
 
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Derry Salewski
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Could be this edition only gets 500-1000 copies or something.

Let's assume the gameplay is good since basically all that company's games are highly regarded.

Go see what limited special editions of good games sell for.

You kinda can't miss if this is as advertised.

I'll bet you can just buy the special meeples from meeple source after though, and add them to the game at whatever price you can find it. Might take away from some of the specialness.

I am slightly nuts and will likely be doing the reverse: Buying the deluxe edition and buying regular meeples to add to it. I think character meeples are stupid looking.
 
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